Corey Dickinson - M&A, Marketing Org Design, and Why the Taproom Still Wins

welcome to shelf help today we're speaking with corey dickinson vp of marketing at wilding brands craft beverage portfolio that's been making a lot of late a waves lately building a pre premiere craft beverage platform with leading brands like denver beer co went there many times and i lived in denver great divide upslope know them very well i think prior to wild wilding of course spent like ten years or so building denver beer co's marketing function i think a good chunk of time at community beer co uh down in dallas as well long story short corey knows the craft beverage world very well as good as anyone's corey welcome it's adam's gonna be here and uh i appreciate the lengthy intro i certainly don't know if i uh you know qualify as knowing better than most you know in terms of the craft beer industry but i have certainly spent a good chunk of my professional life in the industry and that's an industry that i still have so much love for so wilding brands yeah sort of a new um it's a new new platform and it's it's not necessarily um consumer facing and we're kind of intentional about that for a few reasons but um we came together this is this is sort of in the works for a while actually but officially came together in the fall of 2024 the origin is you know kind of goes back to goes back about 15 years almost and charlie burger the founder of denver beer company eric foster founder of stem cider and brad lincoln founder of funkwerks out in fort collins they were all kind of coming up in the beverage industry around that same time charlie was working on denver beer company and the launch of that brand and foster was working on stem savers and brad had funkwerks in its kind of fledgling stage out in in fort collins and and they were they're friends you know they just and and so they kind of um confided in each other in terms of business strategy and product development and that kind of thing like very early on and stayed in touch throughout the years and you know and in in the last decade um or more average has seen a lot of um interesting changes i think throughout these changes decline and growth and decline and growth um and and shifts and trends and and what not and they they sort of always bounced um ideas off of each other like hey you know how are things for you what's going on here what's what does next year look like for you and at some point um you know it became clear that there was some opportunity here in colorado to create sort of a new platform bringing together strategically beverage producers to to sort of i guess um deal with some of the headwinds that we're facing but also create some solutions for for some of our you know wholesale partners from some of our account partners retail partners um and and create some new opportunities for for innovation and not just liquid innovation but brand strategy innovation and and that sort of thing and so the idea was that we wanted to be deep in colorado this is our backyard and and it's a big market here you know for sure colorado is a big craft market and we wanted to create some opportunities to stabilize um some of our brands created some some new opportunities and so through the the the last year and a few months ish you know we we've gone through a series of mergers and acquisitions and these and i think publicly it was like what is going on but these were i i think it's important to understand that like in any in any state and in any industry really particularly craft like we're all pretty close knit you know it's not like you know we one day we made a phone call and it was like hey so we wanna um no it was it was a lot of collaboration and a lot of conversation with friends and industry partners about where their businesses was at where they wanted it to go what the next one five ten years looked like and and it became pretty apparent that there was an opportunity to expand the platform and and so yeah throughout the course of last year great divide i joined in april station twenty six which is a um a smaller craft brewery in kind of northeast denver that is well known for juicy banger ipa and tangerine cream and three o three lager those are their three pretty high performing sues that are like you can find them in almost anywhere in denver and they're in an old firehouse it's a very cool brand and then as we move through the year upslope in boulder as well and so you know these kind of these partnerships and acquisitions for the most part like allowed us to create a a pretty diverse portfolio and then kind of like strategically position brands within each each you know kind of area to play to their strengths and to leverage relationships and successes that they've seen over the years to create successes for other brands that are within our portfolio to take a hard look at what hadn't been working and say okay well this has not been working let's change that because we know that you know we can take lessons that we've learned to communally and and apply them to underperforming products or brands whatever that may be so wilding is not just a you know it's a platform of of all of these beverage companies we also have a couple restaurants as well but it's also a a a you know a platform for all of the people that have come from all of these brands and so you know it's kind of cool for for me in particular and i know for most of the other department heads from sales and production and retail too retail meaning like our brick and mortar locations and i get to work with people that came from great divide and from upslope and station and denver beer company and howdy beer and stem cidars and so you get this amazingly creative set of people that have a lot of expertise in different areas and create some really interesting um opportunities for us to to grow so that's wilding in a nutshell i guess that's perfect yeah yeah i'm totally blanking on the name but like the is it called bev boost the technology i think like the founder created where you crack open the can and it has like the hops that that hop in is that something you got you working with it day to day basis or what not but anyways it's that sounded super right into it dude yeah um so hot boosted was an innovation that came from upslope in the fall of last year they launched that in i wanna say october of twenty five a sort of their like lead fall innovation at the chain level and the conceptually that product and that application is super alright so the idea is that you have a widget inside of a can so similar to if you're familiar with like nitrogenated guinness in a can right like nitro guinness when you open that can there's a small plastic ball that releases nitrogen that creates that like creamy mouth feel that you're used to having on draft guinness the idea behind hop boosted is that there's a a widget a capsule that holds hop extract and so when you open that can the hop extract is released into the beer and it mimics a fresh hop or super fresh ipa and so that that's the concept simple and as we worked through on boarding of upso you know part of that process is you know qc analysis and and what what we started to to what we found was at the time that product wasn't exactly where it needed to be and we had a lot of conversations with some of our retail partners our wholesale partners about boosted and we're like is this confidence right now in this product where how do we feel about continuing this one can we can we do this in a way can we produce this in a way that the liquid quality is consistently high that the consumer experience is consistently high that cogs are where they need to be and they make sense and after a lot of due diligence and a lot of conversation and market research it was like this is this is at this moment not where it needs to be and so we had a pretty tough conversation with our primary distributor here in colorado is breakthrough beverage and some of our other key partners and said listen we have two you know paths here one is we continue to do r and d and potentially run into some out of stocks and we're going to try to navigate that as quickly as we can or we're gonna press pause on this for now and essentially sell through what's in market and that will be the end of it for now until we feel that we can relaunch this in a way that is you know kind of lives up to the to the concept like and and so um it's kind of unanimous that it was like don't don't get this you know put your put the brand in a situation where you're not gonna be able to do a diligence and you're not gonna be able to fail to ban so we put it on pause and it's a hard decision but sometimes like that that's just part of business and but i i you know from a marketing standpoint i love the concept and i do hope that it's something that we can produce at one point i i really do so we'll see if we can come back super cool technology super cool yeah yeah i guess you're taking a step back and maybe upslope upslope is is a good example but i was kind of curious in terms of got a fair amount of brands in the portfolio at this point i'm not sure if you know some of them felt like they needed uh i don't know it's reorganization is the right word but i guess my question was like do you have kind of like a typical or like standardized kind of i don't know revitalize the brand playbook when you kind of loop them in is is there kind of like a typical kind of like thirty sixty ninety day plan to kind of get them integrated specifically in your world and kind of the marketing world brand integrations yes but in terms of our approach to like you know evaluating opportunities and where these brands want to go no i don't think there's not like a standardized plan there because i think that every single brand that we have in our portfolio requires individual attention and understanding of like not just the history and the and the and the the persona and the culture behind of these brands but the audience and so it's it's not a one size fits all like here's the playbook for up slope or great divide moving forward integration is a different thing integration is like way more systematic right in terms of marketing and sales and production efforts and so you know ramp up of production tank space and packaging you know transitions to packaging guidelines and all those things to fit our equipment and that's all pretty standardized and you know marketing is sort of similar in terms of like transitioning digital channels and um you know in cadence of communications on you know social and email and all that stuff so that is that's a systematic approach for sure yeah and we kind of do have a little bit of a playbook i i love to say it's perfect but look it's just not it's just not uh some of the it's yes some of these brands have been around for a really long time right like great divide is thirty two years old yeah they've accumulated a lot of things whether it's physical things or digital things and you're like you know you have to sort through a lot of that and and figure out like you know hey so where does this live and how does this work and but in terms of strategic like positioning yeah we talked through some positioning and and i think understanding like foundational like evergreen products and audiences and what what what absolutely like we need to ensure we don't excuse my language fuck up yeah and then taking a hard look at like what isn't working right now like what does need to change and and and what is the the path forward and what does that path of change look like is it a small change is it bigger change is this a thirty day sixty day ninety day thing or is this like a one year two year three year thing and so every brand i think in within our own portfolio has certainly its own strengths that you know have it's been amazing to get to work with some of these like legacy products and brands that um have such an amazing brand loyalty and consumer base and um that's been fantastic and and it's been great to say well what could this look like in the next year or two and and where you know where does this play and um and so in some ways we've got a a good foundation of a plan and then you know and when you start looking further out like you know into the next twenty twenty seven twenty twenty eight and beyond then it becomes a little bit more high level and like can we what what could this potentially move to or change to and and that sort of thing but i think generally there are a few exceptions with some some brand products i should say not brands but we try to on board and hopefully have these brands operating in a very similar way so there aren't you know interruptions in production marketing and sales channels and then once we've got sort of baseline ops we can start really planning that roadmap of what does the next year or two or three look like yeah on that topic are you i'm sure initially it's they're pretty decentralized but over time are you like in terms of what the the org looks like right now with that many brands in the portfolio are you like running do you have like separate totally separate kind of siloed marketing teams for each brand or is like a centralized function whether is like you know marketing director that covers multiple brands or maybe the best way to put it is like what is the marketing org structure look like from the top down wilding down to across all the brands in the portfolio yeah it's a good question um it's something where we um we started one way and and we we realized that six months in that structure wasn't gonna work um we started with individual maybe not individual brands having their own brand manager but certainly like groups of brands depending on size and application and opportunity and market where we had multiple brand managers overseeing multiple brands and that what we came to what i came to understand and my team came to understand was that like that wasn't leveraging the um the benefit of like wilding as a portfolio right because then you have people that are working in almost sort of independent of each other on specific goals for specific brands and so i think my team kind of came together and i i mean i was i led this but i let my team make the final kind of call like hey does this structure work what if we changed it what could it look like and so you know try got buying from all of our brand managers yeah i don't we shouldn't have a brand manager that's specifically working on denver beer company and specifically working on great divide and specifically working on howdy beer and specifically working on stem because at some point they all end up working on the same things in some way right so the way that we silo this was then sort of like wholesale brand manager marketing manager right so somebody who is really the catalyst between sales wholesale operations and our marketing team so go to market strategy that sort of thing product development you know and then we've got a silo for a retail marketing manager so that's the person that is the catalyst to for for marketing efforts to our brick and mortar locations right so driving uh driving people to our tap rooms and our restaurants and supporting our operators with marketing efforts events and programs and that sort of thing and then partnerships and partnerships are you know bigger events and festivals and sponsorships and you know that that sort of thing so uh we ended up kind of siloing into those three channels and that way yeah well like looking back on it's like oh yeah why didn't we just do that to start but i guess you know it's one of those examples of like you don't know it doesn't work until you do it and then you realize yeah that doesn't work but it's great because what it does is it gives i think one of the challenges when you go through these like the series of mergers and acquisitions i mean we went through four mergers and acquisitions in one year which is a lot and and you bring people that are super talented and and inevitably they have specific brand loyalties because that's where they came from that's what they've been doing for the last one three five in some cases ten years and if you were to put them in a brand manager role they will work on that brand for sure just like they always have but but then they're not thinking about the opportunities beyond that brand within wilding right and so if if you break down those barriers and say now think about how you would operate if you have access to not just a great divide portfolio but all of these other established craft beer brands plus a cider brand plus a non alc portfolio think about the applications you have for wholesaler programming think about how much better we can support our retail accounts from a partnership standpoint now we're working with partners whether it be a a you know use a music festival for an example traditionally music festivals will go to like one or two or three or five breweries or something and say you know i want you to come in and either have one brewery and have four different products that fall into a lager an ipa a fruit beer a wheat beer whatever it might be or i'll work with five different breweries to curate this menu and it's like we'll just work with one person and we can create an amazing experience for consumers and it's yeah we've got hard seltz and cider and ipa and lager and non alc so we can curate this experience and if you want a uh an amazing cross section of some of the best craft beverage in colorado we got that and you don't have to go to four different other you know four different suppliers you come to us so it was a little bit of a learning experience for um for for my team and also for the sales team i'm like how what are the best ways to to leverage the strengths of wilding um you know the the the things that we have that maybe some of our competitors don't and so yeah it's it's been interesting for sure and that's so so anyways to back to answer your question about the structure our brand managers operate in those silos and then i've got a creative team and then a digital team as well got it how do you personally allocate and kind of balance your time between all the brands in a i don't know given day given week dude let me know if you got any answers to that haha any tips and tricks for me look i think the name of the game is like the you know flexibility and pivot when you can for the most part at a top from a from a top down approach like we have our priorities right we know that there are certain whether it be certain brands or certain initiatives or programs that like are top priority for us and so leadership is is pretty aligned there and then it's our job to make sure that our teams are aligned with those priorities and hopefully we can allocate time and appropriately does that always happen no it certainly doesn't but um yeah it's a bit of a juggling act but i think that dude the the beautiful thing is like i no day is the same like i love that and i've i've always been drawn to that sort of small business mentality no matter how big the business is because i i just and in some ways you you wanna operate outside of the trenches but i also like having a little bit of like a granular understanding of everything and where everything is going and moving towards and um so it's a juggling act i try to prioritize the best i can as does everybody else but um yeah i think it's just maintain a positive like at the end of the day like we're we're selling beer and cider here how how fortunate am i to be able to work with some amazing colorado beverage companies and at the end of the day you know like we're attached to such a cool our our hq offices are attached to a place called acreage um which is like a huge uh restaurant production cidery on this a few acres overlooking the front range it's beautiful and so at the end of the day it's like pop next door and have a have a beer or a cider and it's like dude it's great like gotta have fun with it right so totally yeah totally shifting gears and you can totally correct me if i'm wrong i feel like i whether you read about this you wrote an article interview something and you were just talking about how basically the quote was brewing great beer just isn't enough and that the experience is really what kind of sets breweries and and and craft brands apart i'm from your perspective what have you found are some of the key variables or kind of levers you think about when designing a customer experience at a taproom to really kind of create a differentiated experience that's going to keep them coming back yeah i did say that i still really do believe that brewing great beer it that's like the the the first fucking step in that you know if you can't do that then come on i mean at this point in the game it's like that's that's minimal effort brew fantastic product you know i would love to say it's oh it's just about the the the the marketing the messaging that it's not it's about the people behind the bar yeah it's i really do believe that if you you know all things equal right you've got good product um you know you got a cool space even if it's not that cool of a space truthfully you can make up for that with great service and and and interacting with people who care and are having fun and enjoy what they're doing and so i think it starts there hiring the right people creating a a company culture that fosters that sort of like environment um and then you know the nice thing about wilding is that there's opportunity for people to grow beyond like because we're a bigger organization now um there's upward mobility there's opportunities that previously probably may not have existed within a singular organization or singular brand i should say and so and i think it's like putting people in a position to have fun and succeed and then if they want to if they're interested in learning more and developing professionally it's like yeah that opportunity is here whether you wanna learn more about a different brand that's within our portfolio or you wanna consider management or working more into sales or marketing or production we have a lot of folks that have done that even the last year and said you know i've been here for the last two years love it but like i would want to learn more about production brewing and i want to be involved in that and um so we've got sales people that have moved into production we've got production people that have moved into front of house yeah and i think it's it just it comes out on the people dude it really does i had another guy on the podcast with a lot of years in the bevac space as well and um he said something that just resonated with me he said like i think he said something along the lines of uh the bevaugh distro space has become just like the nba in terms of it's turned into a a players league meaning just kind of the biggest the big conglomerates gonna set the priorities for the distributors command all the attention and leaving the smaller brands to kind of fend for themselves and from a selling perspective and from a designing perspective and basically um you know they're basically just kind of a logistics arm and the smaller brands have to do everything themselves i'm curious would you kind of agree with that and kind of what's your take on the distributor landscape today and maybe how it's changed over the past i don't know five ten years or so yeah it's an interesting parallel and i can i can totally understand that sort of analogy no doubt about it and in some ways that is a symptom that led to wilding right like i think in some ways that was our that is um our answer to that where totally you know as a stand alone singular brand it is extremely competitive wholesalers can be drawn to especially in this environment taking lower risks which generally means working with larger companies with you know proven um sales records and proven products and and a lot more resources and so you know it i craft is is funny i'm gonna kind of like back up a little bit here but the perception of like what is big you know in the craft beer industry what what is big company what is this you know and so in in in some ways depending on the audience it's like well wilding is a really big company and it's like it's like it's so not it is so not a big company haha but but relative to each independent brand we're a big company but um so yeah i i think that with wilding our hope is the majority of our brands are distributor aligned with a craft centric distributor breakthrough beverage here in colorado and um our our hope is that as a portfolio we can create more opportunity and more of a you know more opportunity for for breakthrough beverage right where we can say here is the most here's the highest quality product the most competitive price and we've got a consolidated marketing and sales team to support you in your efforts um here is our our priorities and and and they have our attention because it's no longer one brand it's we've got several that now are inevitably are a focus of theirs for sure so it strengthens the partnership no doubt about it as a smaller indie brand i think yeah in some ways when you look at a cold set i mean we're specifically speaking about like off prem right now but you you can't have a thousand ipas on a shelf true yeah because that's doing a disservice to the consumer at some point it sort of is because what will happen is you know it's a disservice to the retail account cause they've got all this shit that like maybe it pulls maybe it doesn't and at some point if the product isn't pulling then it's out of code and then that consumer purchases that and it's not what they were hoping it's gonna be and then it's they have a poor experience and a bad product and then yada yada yada yada um and so anyways as a smaller friend i think you have to become a little bit more strategic a little bit more surgical um and and also a little bit more realistic with your goals where do you where does your product need to be what is important to the success of your brand is it an off premises account if so what type of account is best suited for your brand is it a you know if you're a a niche product is it a um a smaller indie bottle shop that is going to do do service do for for your brand and represent it well because the person behind the counter can speak to it because they're focused on those types of like niche brands so i think like changing your strategy and your and your expectations and your goals accordingly is part of that because yeah look dude we're not i don't know dude the the super bowl commercials and that kind of shit like there are there are there's always going to be a much bigger brand with a lot more resources and but with that creates a lot of opportunity to be surgical because they will overlook all of the more local more direct relationships that you can develop as a craft brewer so yeah and then most importantly and i know that this seems like so freaking obvious but like don't neglect i mean certainly you need like prioritize your own premises your taproom experience like if you are developing a strategy that in some ways takes focus off of that i think that that's a pretty big mistake i still think it rings true today as it did five years ago and ten years ago and twenty years ago that like that first hand experience is the most important thing for you and it's your bread and butter it's your highest margin product right and so like and that that creates the most loyalty that you're going to be able to get and so yeah i would always prioritize i still we always as a marketing and sales team here like i prioritize resources that are you know to drive people to our taproom locations first because i know that those efforts create brand loyalty and i know that that does still relate to product depletions in market for sure totally obviously some level of a flywheel there they buy it at your brewery then they want to buy it in the store how are you guys at all thinking about the the hemp uh thc beverage space yeah it's interesting it's certainly something that we've talked about quite a bit over the last few years this is even before wilding colorado is is creates some you know it is a little bit of a different market than than some other states for sure and when we kind of ran in an opportunity kind of analysis what we what could what it could look like um i don't think we're gonna get into tfc i don't i don't see that as being a priority of ours i think it's a really interesting market i i see a lot of um brands that are that are seeing a lot of success we're just there's a lot of questions around it and what it looks like for the next one three five and uh i think right now given that um the last year for wilding like we're going we're pretty focused on bev alk non alk that kind of stuff and and thc is is not necessarily at the top of our list but i i as a as a guy who's in this industry it's it's certainly interesting and i'm i'm i hope that brewers can use that product line to their advantage am i right that uh formation brewing that's only that you guys have basically created and launched from scratch yeah you know and so formation was a it was a project that i that that we started to work on at dbc before wilding and so formation is in phoenix and it's its own brand in a really cool neighborhood called roosevelt row and so roosevelt row if i don't know if you've ever spent any time in phoenix but yeah a bunch of time actually okay nice nice so it's super cool area it's very artsy and it kind of reminds me of of the rhino neighborhood here in denver a bit um but um initially the concept was is there opportunity for dbc to expand into another market and create a similar like hub and spoke model that was taproom centric right tap or i should say it's taproom like it's more of a brewpub right restaurant and and and taproom and and so to create a kind of another network and we kind of we felt pretty strongly that denver beer company as a brand was not the right fit for a you know an arizona based model so we we built formation and and we launched that that last year and it's a freaking amazing place honestly like the tap room it's so beautiful the food program there is fantastic such an awesome neighborhood and so we'll we'll see what happens next in the arizona market it's sort of an interesting it's an interesting market i think it's in some ways i don't want to say it's it's behind colorado but it's the competitive set is much different in arizona than it is in colorado yeah so um i think there's still some some there's still opportunity in in arizona for some brands to grow and to see meaningful growth and successes through and i go back to kind of what i just said a couple minutes ago focusing on the experience that you get first hand from coming into a spot and bridging that experience to potentially grow into a couple other locations we'll see what happens what were kind of the key variables that were top of mind through things are most important when you're building out the brand identity kind of positioning voice and you know can packaging design for for this new brand for formation yeah man well we didn't want it to be too colorado it still's got a little bit of colorado in it no doubt about it um but we spent a lot of time in market in arizona um and not just at breweries we you know it was like art galleries music restaurants festivals sporting events um we talked to a lot of people in the industry outside of the industry in hospitality and tourism just to get a better feel for for the market and and what we kind of found was like there's a lot of cultural overlap to colorado for sure but we also knew that like phoenix particularly that part of phoenix was art driven maybe a little bit more um it's definitely more diverse in terms of food and music and people and tourism than than colorado or denver specifically and so our our hope was to create a brand that was driven by arizona that the landscape and the culture so our menu and and a lot of our beers reflect that and then sort of take a little bit more of like an elevated approach i think we saw that maybe there was an opportunity there to position like the formation experience and brand as more of a premium experience in that neighborhood we there's a lot of there's quite a few burries and none of them are kind of operating in in in that space there's a lot of them do the freaking great job and it's a really cool neighborhood because you can kind of bounce around and check out a few different spots and so our hope with with formation is that we create a unique experience that's not like oh this is like going to the other place down the street it's certainly a stand alone and it's it's unique and so yeah i don't know if that answered your question answer the question for sure i think you built the like e commerce platforms i think at both denver beer co and community beer and for my note for variety of reasons like one just kind of the weight of liquid is like you know building a ddc in beverage is just kind of notoriously tricky and just making it work from a variety of reasons like what's what did you just find was kind of the key to building actual kind of sustainable ddc channel in this craft beverage world well so this is interesting so we did not approach this from a liquid standpoint okay our attention um so this is now there is a liquid application here of course but there are different regulations surrounding different liquids particularly here in colorado so we can't actually sell alc beer direct okay we don't our our our ecom is solely non alc product and cider because cider is considered a wine so we have ddc opportunities with those two liquids and then it's it's merchandise and merchandise so um wearables right like what we as we grew with ddc and we opened up new locations we realized that like our merch program was one like every freaking brewery merchandise is like sort of an afterthought it's like oh yeah we should have like t shirts of course but it's not very intentional um and we realized like dude there's definitely like opportunity here if we're intentional with our merchandise and then we you know this is kind of before i joined dpc but they they created a model that was like not sustainable meaning like they were they were managing fulfillment and warehousing and distribution of merchandise to three locations and then we had four locations then we had five locations and now we have ten brick and mortars and so the whole driver actually behind ecom was to create a system like a three pl system where we could fulfill customer orders and drive some rev from our consumers online but also fulfill orders for our taproom brick and mortar and so that is why we built our current ecom um program and it was to set the stage for additional brands additional locations and to create a a program that was easier for our operators to to work with and keep their store stocked with merchandise and that sort of thing so yeah that makes a lot of sense that that connects the dots for me more much more yeah yeah cory this has been awesome and we jumped around a bunch of stuff but this is this is super fun super interesting what's the best place for like people to follow along with with you and then i know wilding isn't really customer facing so i don't know if you wanted you know shout out to any brands that you know what what do you want people to follow along and from the brand side you know yeah so wilding is in public right because truthfully like as a consumer why should you give a shit why do you care right like really it's about the individual brands and that's the hope like i don't i don't b to b you know yeah that that makes sense right like wilding there's value there and there's wholesaler relationships but um i don't know what do we have coming up do we got a lot of things in the works but i would say you know for a a shameless pitch alright so what's coming up like if you're a local to the uh front range or denver area specifically dbc's got this event coming up i know this is like not exactly what you were looking for now this is great i'll tell them anything it's quite dbc every year beer bacon coffee ok we do this event unlimited beer bacon and coffee and like that's just the premise that's it it's very simple but it's like we work with local coffee purveyors we work with like a local food purveyor and we do all these like breakfast themed beers and we've got like crossword puzzles we've got a bacon eating contest it's like it's just a fucking fun event so that's what's coming up with d c but you know up slope has a lot of cool stuff on the horizon as well great divide it's stout month yeti is one of the best imperial stouts here in colorado so i would say like check out all of our brands because i you know and and if you're looking to like you know stay in touch with like wilding and what we're doing from a um you know from a portfolio standpoint then you know i think like linkedin is always a good kind of like thing there you can always check that out but uh yeah outside of like some you know some industry rags you're not gonna hear much about wilding i don't so cool yeah we'll highlight some of these uh the new events and products and stuff for sure yeah awesome man corazon great really appreciate the time i think uh i think that's the point yeah man uh really good chatting stay in touch let me know if you're in phoenix and definitely let me know next time you're uh back out here in colorado