Seth Waite - The #1 Most Important Question to Ask Consumers

Today we're speaking with Katherine Hennin founder and CEO of Planet Bake New York based brand that makes sugar free vegan gluten free donuts that actually taste like really good donuts born and raised in Germany Catherine spent a fair amount of time in the fashion industry before having a bit of a wake up call during covid just kind of LED her to realize how much sugar people consume and how few truly healthy dessert options exist in the market I mean that's kind of what LED her to where we are today so yeah excited to get into it Katherine just first off for the listeners that aren't that familiar with Planet Bake just give us just quick lay of the land just in terms of kind of origin story why behind the brand core products you got currently in the lineup and then maybe just throw out a few places that people can get their hands on them and then we'll go from there yeah sounds great thank you so much yeah I you know as I grew up in Germany my favourite day wasn't just a holiday or my birthday in general it was actually Tuesdays because on Tuesdays we went to my grandmother's house and where she baked doughnuts for me and all of my cousins and so it became a ritual that makes you know it just felt magical at that time you know we would get together all come together and really like sharing this specific moment and so later on throughout the years and that happening every week day of the week sorry every every week so baking became harder for her and so we the cousins took it on ourselves to really keep that moment of Tuesday donuts alive love that yeah and so you know that's this is actually how Planet B was born and in 2,021 based on this origin story um as we all know fried donuts are loaded with sugar and provide no nutritional value um and so I had a family history um with chronic inflammation diabetes and colon cancer um so I really wanted to create something that is truly good for you and provides essential nutrition that the body needs um you know on a daily basis so our product our donut is not a protein donut um it is really focused on real ingredients super simple we use flaxseed arrowroot almonds psyllium husk real ground spices cacao cocoa avocado oil only and then we use allulose sweetener and so currently we sell four skews meaning four flavours in the market which is dark chocolate cinnamon vanilla and blueberry and product can be uh found across the East Coast really in key retailers we just recently launched with Shoprite we are in a lot of the independent in the city in New York City as well as you know a couple of stores in California where you can find the product at Berkeley Bowls or in San Diego Windmill Farms and then you know out on Long Island in like a North Shore Farms or wild by nature do you think that your German upbringing has influenced the way you view the US food system compared to the European one which I know people often have a lot of comments about and or just the way you approach entrepreneurship in general I would say within the food landscape yes definitely based on the ingredients and what's possible in America what's not possible in the EU obviously I think you know people are speaking out much more than they used to about those differences I I as a consumer I don't buy anything specifically in the US that number one I don't know what it is I don't understand it or I know it's harmful so this is just where I draw the lines and this is actually how I wanted you know to create Planet Bake as a stepping stone into the right direction and just avoiding all the crap no gums no artificials no anything that can really harm you and I know allulose there's not too much research out there yet but I believe that it has great potential and there has never been a bad article or research study about it a lot of trust into the ingredient itself and what it can do for the human body and so I believe yeah I think the EU guidelines definitely have its advantages um sure in in many ways yeah totally I would agree with that well yeah let's remind back to I think it was probably 20 20 ish when you were working on brand identity initial packaging design thinking back to those few years back what do you remember were kind of the key variables that were top of mind for you when you're building out the brand identity and kind of positioning and voice for Planet Bake yeah I actually because I have a fashion design background I started the graphic designs background I started developing the packaging myself nice and based on that experience it's constantly evolving and that's also due to um you know FDA regulations my goal was always to make the product sustainable um which makes it really hard especially in the United States um because the food regulations are so specific where you're not allowed to use basically X amount or this amount this material versus another you really have to use like there's only one way in the industry currently like the you know all the rappers that everybody really uses it's very limited so there's not a lot of innovations around that unless you come to a specific scale where you might be able to make a corner and get out of that and you know utilize a different more sustainable material yeah now that makes so much sense naming is always such like an it's such an important part but it feels really ambiguous and can feels like it can be a challenging process where people can get kind of lost yeah thinking back to those early days what did that naming process look like for you that ultimately landed you on Planet Bake I mean I experimented with different names different options I came to Planet Bake because it just felt right for the brand and the planet and so I always wanted it to be focused on the people and the planet not just either or I want always needed to them to be as a whole combined so the early slogan actually was good nutrition is our mission and I've always stood by this years over the years as I have been building out the packaging the branding the marketing the sales the brand itself formulation R&D standpoint I imagine it probably took you know a little while to dial things in and kind of find the formulation process that really worked I'm not sure if you know started in a home kitchen and then kind of evolved out of there but yeah without giving it away any trade secrets what were some of those kind of key factors that and variables that you played around with or key tweaks you made along the way between let's just say the first version of the donut that you made to the point where in the final version that you said okay I know this is right I feel great about this I'm ready to bring this to market and and were there any kind of must haves and and or non starters let's say I would say it's constantly evolving especially since you know trends are changing or regulations are changing yeah um or you wanna enhance the flavor of a product versus you know based on feedback or consumer outreach and studies so at the very early stages I I mean it took me nine months to develop the recipe myself I did not have any third party involved in the process um I took my sweet time with this there was lots of obstacles especially if you're looking into simple ingredients like how to keep them all together and make them come out in a certain way and also lasts um so the very early product you know it was molding really quickly and so we had to adjust over time to figure out what is the sweet spot on ingredients that we have to use and this is actually why we use ingredients to amount as well they're all natural there's no preservatives so the ratio really matters and I had to learn that a little bit the hard way going into market not knowing all the details could sometimes be challenging but overall I mean as I said I think the recipe is always involving you always wanna improve and make it better and take the most important lesson everybody should learn is listen to your consumer because they're the one consuming and purchasing the product and that's the ultimate business goal yeah so from that perspective I mean it was lots of hits and misses right a lot of R&D a lot of testing we worked with a lab for shelf life studies actually it was Cornell University for nice for me um I always trusted him pricing was efficient and so it was just a yeah it's a process and it's still evolving today right it's an evolving thing the product is never done right exactly was there was there like was like the biggest challenge to get to the formulation that you felt like was the one that you were happy with uh yes so when I did the product in my commercial kitchen the last final tweaks was really the chocolate on top okay like I needed it to be sweet enough but not too sweet because you know aloe is it's expensive you know it has its own contributions to the product I would say and so yeah it was just the the final piece that finally came together and then moving that into scalability like moving into a comb packer was the next final step totally yeah that makes sense alulos uh was the sweetener that you ultimately decided upon did you explore other options like whether I don't know stevia monk fruit probably not sucrose um yeah any other options that you tried and then I'm kind of curious what were the kind of decision factors that ultimately LED you to say I feel like allulose is the one I wanna go with this is the best one for me and so that was really in 2,020 when the FDA finally called it out on the ingredients label for what it actually is so you didn't have to list it under the carbohydrates as a total anymore you have to call it out below the sugar so it was into the carbohydrates but it was not a sugar so that gave a little bit of a transparency I would say to the customer sure and I know a lot of brands today they don't even call out the the grams that are inside in regards to alulos but we at Planet Bake we do because we wanna be fully transparent it is our number one ingredient and so I think people should know how much is in there yeah and what they're eating I think it's just you know it's important to know anybody who is making health cautious decision um I am always for full transparency in that regards but I will lose you know I started with it immediately I did my research on it I read like all the studies all research studies that were out there I know how it's composed I know that it's converted I know the chemical structure of all you lose inside and out and so you know just from that understanding versus other sweetness in the market I did not want to use stevia I did not want to use monk fruit because of the aftertaste and what consumer brought back to me that they really hated mm hmm and they don't enjoy it and it's it's declining I feel like a little bit all together in the market currently which wasn't the case in 2,021 22 and so erythritol was another sweetener that I looked into that seemed interesting but I decided ultimately against it at a certain time when some of the not so great studies came out right totally that doesn't surprise me yes in terms of anything that's next on the product roadmap so right now nothing is in the pipeline I have experimented with many products in the market sure I mean when we first started Planet Bake I have released cheesecake I have released cookies just for the consumer testing and how the feedback and what they like what they don't like I mean there's so many different ways some of our competitors are coming out with muffins and so it really depends on like what roadmap and what direction the company will go yeah um which is not determined at this time we talked about co packers a bit so just double clicking on that a bit I guess first off was it pretty challenging for you to find a co packer that was gonna be a best a good fit for you just from a the product standpoint in terms of what the ingredients are in the formulation it's obviously not a normal donut it's pretty specific in terms of the formulation and and kind of the the ingredient makeup list like what was that process like for you yeah I would say based on the recipe it has been super challenging there's not many um co packers out there number one small scale volume yeah they're still technically handmade today even with the co packer because it's such a delicate process I would say um so based on the ingredients you know it has nuts so that's makes it challenging to find the right partner sure does not contain gluten so it's not your typical bakery who has all the processes because of X y and Z they do milk processing and dairy processing which even if like you know it's just something that we stand for and that I wanna um not not take away from sure and so allegiance in general has been an issue and then from the recipe itself it is not a regular doughnut dough it is not a regular cake batter so it's something in between the processing of this is you know you have to get used to you have to train the team it takes a lot of energy and time and resources to put into that specific process finding a co packer in general um I would only say it's your life partner technically you speak to them on a sometimes daily sometimes weekly basis and finding the right partner is essential to No. 1 scale the business and to even survive in today's environment so if you your margins don't add up you don't get X y and Z they're not responsive that's a red that's a red flag for sure I'm saying this because I know a lot of founders who have so many challenges especially since there's so many new brands out there I feel like a lot of co packers are taking advantage of that interesting like pushing pressure you know delivering product late for 2 3 months or not responding to emails and calls at all that's not cool we've seen it a lot in my community itself get them to I guess take you seriously as a new brand and ultimately getting them to say yes I'm gonna give you a shot and let's let's uh let's go down this road together I think transparency and being very open and communicative about where the business is and where do you see it going I think that's number one if you don't have a plan in mind and you know you have to convince them there it's an external they don't know anything about you so why would they give you a shot it's technically like pitching to an investor or to to a buyer yeah it's a it's the same approach so you need to make sure they know you have some leverage and that mostly at at the very beginning if you're just coming out of a commercial kitchen to a co packer I would say that's very challenging mm hmm I mean you still need to show some sort of a roadmap but it's more of like a because they're probably on smaller scale but if you once you go to that next level I feel like co packers are more open to having a real conversation I think when we talked you were kind of talking about and I've heard this from you're not the only one I've heard from this from is how it can be difficult in the early days was just in that a lot of vendors whether it's co packers or it's you know ingredient suppliers packaging suppliers or what not a lot of them ask for pretty significant upfront payments or deposits just because I guess you know the vendors see the risk that the brand could buy a business as a new business but you know it's kind of like the chicken or the egg thing it's like you know one of the things that increases the chances of an early stage brand having cash crunch challenges it because of all these upfront payments have you found any ways to kind of navigate around this yeah I mean I think it comes back to the same concept of having an open communication and talking to the vendors and partners so let's say you work with a vendor for a year right and you have paid them constantly upfront one net thirty and then going out of your way since you have built this relationship to say hey you know we are sitting on this ingredients for six months and because we buy large volumes but even as a early brand we don't move as much as somebody who's selling currently in Walmart and we understand that but would you be open to giving us like a 6 months term for example and just like having that open communication and then being like you know if cash flow is struggling just being upfront like in five months say hey you know can we push out another 30 days I know I have this some coming in and this is you know when I'm gonna pay you yeah and then you know I mean distribution companies in general they're also not on on on perfect target with their payments as well so it makes it even more challenging especially if you're having a big Po or something right financing doesn't really always work out in the way we would like to even if you have invoice financing or pure financing they still want their money and if somebody in the chain is late it's gonna throw everything off right you highlighted just like a few tools that you'd thrown out there that are pretty supportive and helpful early stage brands I think to you you had mentioned was Spring Cash and Wave Flyer just being two but yeah should know about and any other ones that you found to be really helpful yeah I mean overall I think funding in general is tough right so if you're talking to a wayflyer or a spring cash um h company they can be helpful in a certain way but you really have to have know like what are you using the capital for and why do you need it wayfair for example is especially in regards to um cash flow in regards to inventory specifically which can be very helpful but you you still have to produce the cash to pay them back on a monthly basis or by weekly yeah spring cash is more of like a bigger Po that they wanna cover and give you upfront terms other than that I think it's really important for early founders to look into grants because it's free money yeah totally I am in the community of and choose foundation which has been really helpful for female founders specifically they always have different grants marketing Amazon you know there's different opportunities out there and that those are not the only this is not the only organization who's offering this yeah so the most important thing is just keep the keep the eyes open and keep looking for these opportunities online and one of the current one is actually who has just been released is shelfmate which is another great community for early founders who are really at the early stages of you know maybe a 250,000 revenue but now they need to scale to half a million or even a million in revenue so there's nothing in regards to funding in between and it's really hard for founders at this stage it's easy to get maybe a line of credit but beyond that it's very tough even a SBA loan or whatever is really hard if you just want to rely on the business credit credentials yeah solely yeah totally yeah and then I think you started approaching investors at some point and I think you kind of shared a challenge which is not the first time I've heard is that there's kind of a you kind of started to see a gap in the ecosystem for call it pre series a CPG brands in terms of investors that are willing to take take a chance at that stage um yeah what has this experience been like for you and any kind of solutions or investors or investor groups you found that have been supportive and and or helpful at that early stage I would say so Planet Big received early funding um at the within the first couple of months so we were approached we were approached by a local firm here in New York City and we we did a strategic partnership the money was used for scale so we launched into all the truepress stores scale operation commercial kitchen in order to then move to a co manufac co manufacturing facility um that process itself was easy because they approached me but after that I would say as funding got harder and harder and with AI coming in and all the other industries tech specifically I feel like the consumer space has been left out of the picture and everybody's talking about it today how you know how challenging it is but I would say there's still consumer angel investment groups out there that every founder should be talking to even not maybe right now to pitch but just to have a conversation just opening the doors having the conversation being transparent of where the business is you know where it could potentially go just handing out some samples and then when the time is right you know just submit an application on the website and and see what happens totally yeah I feel pretty lonely at times and one thing that you told me was that you wish you had known known about or had found communities and community resources earlier like shelf made is is one great example outside of that one what kind of kinds of things in this realm have you found to be most helpful yeah I would say so when I started the company I used to tell my um boyfriend that I'm business lonely so he was really the only one I kept talking to and that and that was 2,021 2,022 like real pandemics and then kind of when it opened up a little bit I started going out to um nationally New York events and they're all across the country Startup CPG is another one and what I have found in the last I would say two years is there's a lot more experience based community building especially in New York and probably other bigger cities where it's more like founder focused and wellness focused so those are the two things combined that they're bringing together there's come one of my friends she is doing um her company is called Shanti House so it's always yoga with some information or wellness inspiration tech what health tech whatever that looks like in the environment or consumer and really just like bringing the those two worlds together especially with mental health and what not then another friend of mine is to is running a club here in New York City called Girls Who Meet so she brings together these girls groups every week twice who are just doing these fun activities together and I feel like this is how you and what I'm trying to say is these communities are popping up everywhere it's not just those two they're like literally anywhere and this is really great for founders number one to talk to people about the challenging they're having but secondary distribute your product get feedback try give it into get it into people's hands and then just connect on a personal level or see who can you partner with who else is out there so those are just different ways that I've approached it and also in regards to brand awareness shifting gears a little bit talking about go to market growth retail distribution and everything in that realm um I think especially in the early days there's kind of a delicate balance that has to be struck between expanding door count and maximizing glossity and making sure you're gonna stand the shelf the doors that you get into what's been your approach here in terms of managing that delicate balance so since I started Planet Bake and I opened most of the doors myself at the very early stages is you know just going door to door and doing demos in person that has always been the number one um success when we first started I would say during the pandemic it was really easy to sell into stores because the big companies couldn't deliver so I opened like 10 stores every week as I'm you know doing demos twice a week just to get the product into people's hands and these independent stores in New York City specifically they didn't really care they just needed business and they knew the customer need they still need groceries and they're operating so that was really I would say easy and what I've Learned like maybe one two years ago is it's getting harder and harder so we really need to convince the buyers in regards to retail like why you should be on the shelf and what are your benefits they love to take back in back in 2,021 2,022 I did not give any free fills people were happy to pay for the product full price today if I go out everybody wants free product so that has kind of shifted from pandemic versus after pandemic and I actually came together with a female group here in New York City and we are trying to build our out our own female founded demo group so number one we don't want to rely on outside partners who are not delivering they just hire random people you don't know the performance you can't control what's happening at that level you're just getting charged a 250 dollar fee and you don't really see much um happening so we we said okay let's just come together and do that ourselves and we will recruit and then train and then you know move from there yeah I think another great tool in general is just advertising online there's Instacart there's meta ads Geo targeted ads that has always helped me personally as a woman as a single person running the show has um yeah it's just help me like get the word out and tell people hey this is where you can buy the product go try it out yeah yeah I'm not sure at what level you started working with distributors but yeah from that standpoint from your experience at I guess first question like at what stage looking back now would you say a business or a brand should start thinking about engaging a distributor so I always approached it that way where I wanted to start with somebody small so I had a small distribution company in 2,023 um in Philadelphia and so they distributed the product on behalf of me which was great at the early stages but then at some point because they were small it stalls and this is the only like they are the only accounts and this is just how it's going so you need to think about the next growth stage so I was adding a second distribution company and a third but they were all really small so it kind of like stalls again and then you have to think about the next step so last year I made the decision to move to rainforest distribution okay and they're covering the entire east uh northeast right now for Planet Big and we are planning to move down southeast as well that's great that's exciting that's awesome what do you feel like founders maybe misunderstand or approach the wrong way when it comes to distributor relationships and really maximizing that relationship to optimize for success with that distributor it's a lot of work it's a lot of work managing the relationships uh you still have to sell into the accounts you cannot rely on the distributor to do that right so I've always put a so I have a salesperson on the team who calls literally every store of the distribution company like maybe four times a year just to check in see if there's anything we can do or even just like pitching the product just letting them know it exists because even if the distributor walks in they have a portfolio of let's say 200+ brands and you're probably not top of mind unless you engage with this rap and you make them you know think about you dream about you your brand like they have to fall in love with you and if this is not the case which 99% it's probably not you still have to go completely out of your way to figure out um how to manage the direct retailer relationships we had a broker in the past we moved away from that model for a little bit and now we are thinking about adding one for the next year any specific big goals you're kind of focused on for for 2026 from a distribution standpoint potentially yes I did a Expo um east which is the last one in 2,023 and I got approached by sprouts nice we have had this conversation and I pushed back for two years now so I finally went down there and said okay we're ready yeah that's great that's exciting but we'll see we get a decision in a couple of days nice alright fingers crossed you wanna share but outside of Planet Bake specifically obviously you're ingrained in the CPG world you're probably in stores a lot just following a lot of trends any any brands outside of Planet Bake or it's kind of trends in general in the CPG space that's gotten you kind of particularly excited about or you've been kind of following along just for fun yeah so what I always keep my eye on so Planet Bake is sold in the refrigerated space so I've heard some rumors that big retailers are expanding that entire grab and go refrigerated category nice and one of them is sprouts who's I think thinking about this move and so that's what I'm excited about is like anybody's who's building out this category as you know as it's growing and the consumer is really drawn to that section it's just convenient it's better for you you know all of the above and so I'm excited about seeing this how it plays out another super large retailer is thinking about adding a entire new food wellness category wow nice and it will take some time because they're so large but just hearing that is exciting and we're moving in the right direction probably um other than that I mean I'm always rooting for brands who are super clean super healthy better for you and just you know combined I feel like we can make a real impact but yeah that's been great captain so many great insights here I think it's really helpful for other founders great to learn about Planet Bake follow along with you and the journey that you're on in building Planet Bake and then what's the best place for people to to follow along with the brand as well you can follow us on Instagram at planet bake dot us or connect with us on LinkedIn and then obviously we're on our website and yeah feel free to reach out cool awesome sounds good listen great Catherine really appreciate the time thank you so much Adam thanks for having me for sure one thing that really stands out in terms of Ali Al now I can't say it I think when we spoke a few weeks back we I know I know a lot of what did you find is the best way to kind of as an early stage founder you also mentioned when you were talking any other ones that early stage operators should you chose to bootstrap from the outset being a founder can be pretty lonely at times from a distributor standpoint are you working with brokers yet