Red Bull, Regenerative Organic Tea, and 25 Years of Beverage Marketing | Mike Fransz, Nova Naturals

Speaker: 00:00
Welcome to Shelf Help. Today we're speaking with Mike Franz, director of marketing at Nova Naturals, the parent to CTO Pure Coconut Water, Steve's Minaragra, and then Teo Gispacho as well. Nova Naturals is owned by Novomex, the Mexican beverage house that owns additional brands like the infamous Joritos, is probably the one that's probably most familiar with. Mike usually honed his chops at Red Bull and then led marketing of brands like Nerbrand, Swell Foods, before landing in Nova Naturals. So a lot of really great experience in the space and really excited to get into it. Mike, maybe just first off, for listeners that aren't that familiar with Nova Naturals quick lay of the land in terms of maybe origin story, kind of when the company started and brought all the brands together, and then the core brands under the umbrella. You can just kind of reiterate them a bit more. I know I kind of gave them at a high level, and then uh we'll go from there.

Speaker 1: 00:49
Yeah, no worries. So Nova Naturals uh was formed as a division of greater Nova Max, as you mentioned, Adam. Uh NovaMex, our parent company, has three separate divisions. We have a classic Hispanic groceries division. Uh we have uh a conventional drinks division, which is most known for uh the Jaritos line of sodas. And uh five years ago, you know, we formed Nova Naturals. Uh Nova Naturals is was essentially the naturals business unit for greater NovaMex. And so the focus there was to idea there was really to have a team of people focused on natural, not just the natural channel, but natural brands and allowing those brands to be supported and developed in the marketplace. And um, you know, it's kind of a uh nice thing because we it's one big matrix. Uh, you know, Novamex was uh originally created out of partnerships, and uh there's a great team of people there uh that manage everything from uh sales, finance, operations, production, etc. But you know, for Nova Naturals, we focus on really C2O and STEAS right now. Uh, those are our two main brands. Did mention Teo Gazpacho. Teo was uh brand of uh uh at Novamex. Really, you know, Novamex had uh purchased into STES and also into C2O. And so we formed a business unit around the Naturals Division. They also purchased TO with Teo's few challenges uh coming out of COVID with that brand, just you know, low awareness on total on gazpacho, and then also, you know, the challenges post-COVID, the world was very different, right? So the need, the desire, uh, the roots to market, and the way that we were planning the market, it was a challenge. So not saying you won't see anything uh out of on TIO, but we are looking at other ways to bring value through that brand. But for now, uh our main focus is C2O and C's, which we're doing an excellent job with, and just continuing to grow year over year.

Speaker: 02:49
Well, perfect. Um you've spent, I think, 25-ish years in the food and beverage space, um, which you know, I think so much has has evolved, even like you said, things change even just between pre-COVID and post-COVID. Um totally. It was like 25 years or so. Like what what kind of I'm just kind of curious what jumps out in terms of things that have really kind of fundamentally changed about how brands win today versus versus when you started?

Speaker 1: 03:16
I mean, if you're not evolving, you're dying, right? And like the whole game is can has changed quite a bit. I mean, 25 years, I mean, you're seeing huge shifts, right? So just within the natural food sector, let's just take that for a second. When I was a kid, I mean, shoot, when I was a kid, you'd go down to the local natural food store, and if you wanted something really unique and and different, that's where you got your vitamins and some of these things, right? Uh your organic products. They weren't available in in large conventional grocery stores. Uh, you weren't even seeing it as menu options in in restaurants. Like, there's a huge seismic shift that's occurred where natural has become mainstream, right? Um, I mean, your larger one of your largest organic retailers in the world is Costco. It's unbelievable, right? So, like you've seen huge shifts in assortment at Walmart, you've seen huge shifts in assortment at Target. You're seeing it day in, day out uh in Kroger and other fine retailers nationwide. So, like, there's been a huge shift in natural. It's also been a huge awareness lift in in what types of products people prefer. Uh, and you know, the unique thing about the products today is like people can be very specialized in what their need states are, and there's uh uh a fix and function naturally for a lot of different things. So people are experimenting on the consumer side, which is interesting, right? Because you really have a proliferation of communication information that has taken place all due to the internet. I mean, prior to 1998, I don't even think there was an internet, right? I got my first email, right? And you know, graduating UCLA and went to work at Red Bull and I was working there and got a you know, had a had an email for the first time. I was like, what the heck is that? And shortly after we got cell phones. I mean, they weren't even small cell phones, they were just ginormous freaking pieces of phone, you know, uh and we kind of laughed, but the the the information age has really changed things with consumers. It's also changed things as far as brands go. You know, you're seeing not just other changes that you're seeing, just our general marketplace, stuff we probably take for granted. I mean, who knew at the time, a few years later, Amazon, a bookseller, would turn into the one of the largest retailers in the world, right? Like, so and and lead the way in online shopping after the dot com bust, right? So, like you're seeing huge changes in the way that people go to market. And then it's not just Amazon, right? I mean, there's there's a whole Instacart revolution and DoorDash and Amazon now, and like as if Amazon two-day prime wasn't enough, you can now have it in an hour. Like, it's this instant gratification, right? So, like there's a little bit of a shift in consumers too, right? So, consumers are used to instant gratification, they're used to having a voice now because of social media, they're used to having you know things quick, easy, simplified. So, but they're also wicked smart. Consumers are super smart, right? And so the one thing that's interesting though is like you've seen these shifts, right? You've seen this seismic shift, if you would, and better for you and natural, right? That's one thing that I saw. But then you also saw online shopping change, and you also saw social media, right? It used to be like when I was at Red Bull my first year, there wasn't such a thing as an influencer. Totally. Influencer is a freaking job now. That's unbelievable, you know? And you know, the way that the way that the world is, it's not about A-list celebrities anymore. It's that people, you know, really YouTube has democratized, you know, the the production value of entertainment into the form of every man's entertainment, every woman's entertainment, every person's entertainment. Whatever your view is, whatever your thing is, you have the potential to be an influencer. Now, when I was first at Red Bull, like we were we were this unique brand, right? So, like this brand, no one even knew what energy drink was when I was hired at Red Bull. I think it was like, I think my number at Red Bull was like number 152. It was the first of five college ambassadors for them. And then they they basically hired me right out of college. And you know, here's me. I'm 23 years old. Here's other folks at the time that are 35, 40 years old, significantly older than me, maybe 10, 15 years older than me. Classically trained in marketing, but here's the kid that learned marketing not as a history major at UCLA. I learned marketing outside through internships and events and activities and like consum, you know, consumer-driven activities around products. And I got hired by Red Bull as a college ambassador and learned marketing even more. And it really got me excited about product and how to bring it to market and how really to get this product market fit, right? So for us at Red Bull, it was kind of interesting in that there wasn't necessarily influencers, but you knew we called them opinion leaders, right? We called them opinion leaders because you all knew who the cool kid was in your region that hung out at the local skate shop. You knew who the top surfer was in the region who was winning, and like the one that everyone looked up to. Maybe not all the ones with the trophies that do it competitively, but the one that's like the opinion leader within the group.

Speaker 2: 09:23
Yeah.

Speaker 1: 09:23
So like at Red Bull, we were trained and taught how to filter through and look for influencers, if you would, you know, but they're really a brand of their opinion leaders. But it came down to simple things. One, do they do they know what Red Bull is? Like, is there a genuine love for the brand? Two, do they have influence in and around their community? And three, are they genuine and credible? Right? Now, some of these things still hold true today, right? Because when you really think about like a total product market fit, like there's ways that you can do things smarter today, yes, because of technology. And but at the end of the day, you have to have a great product, you have to be able to communicate what it is, you have to be able to communicate the value that it represents to someone, right? And like you can get very granular today on targeting some of these markets, which is great. But back then, when we were looking at the market, there were some just simple things that occurred to us, right? It's like we knew who the music influencers were in our region. I grew up, I didn't manage it on a national level, I managed it on a regional level, uh, like in Orange County. So Orange County, California, you know, really started, you know, building that brand in gosh, 2000. I was in northern Los Angeles County of Mammoth Mountain, Burbank, Santa Barbara, San Luis Obispo, and it's really interesting. Like that first territory of mine before I got Orange County was really interesting because it had this unique area. If you know anything about San Fernando Valley, it's all tied in with Burbank and Entertainment Land, right? But then you've also got Ventura, which is like a little bit more of an agricultural and like seafaring town. And then you've got Santa Barbara, which is a little bit more elitist and you know, part of this like biking triathlon at the time that was occurring, right? So like San Luis Obispo, there's not much difference in San Luis Obispo being an agricultural town than there is in other parts of agricultural areas across the country. So it's really kind of like cool microcosm. And then there was Mammoth Mountain, which was the premier snow mountain in the probably on the West Coast, one of them, you know, and so it was really cool because as a young marketer, I got to really understand and learn about some of these unique populations. But what it was teaching me was, you know, how to connect consumers across these different demographics. And how do you make these small towns come to life? And really, it was kind of interesting because at the end of the day, the one thing that has not changed, I would say, is product market fit. Your product has to be able to provide value to the consumers that you're that you're working with or working, you know, in every day.

unknown: 12:40
Yeah.

Speaker 1: 12:40
Hopefully you're part of that community, right? Um, and you know, there were endemic communities, right? So like the skateboarders all hung out with skateboarders and surfers hung out with surfers. And that then became X Games, and everybody kind of came together and started doing their own thing. But like what's really interesting is today is those same people exist, but they exist online. The filter is is literally a little bit more of an aperture, if you would, right? Not just what you're looking around in your community. Now you're looking around online, you're looking at the different creative talent online, you're looking at how they connect with their consumers. What are the values that they have? Do they represent you know your brand? So it was pretty interesting, you know. I think uh those would be the the four main things that I kind of put down is like when you asked me this question earlier, I was like, gosh, that's a really good question, man. But for me, it's it's like this shift in natural to mainstream, which that's why I left Red Bull, right? Like really felt like I got really good. Like when I first started at Red Bull, we were doing about 1,500 cases a month. When I left Red Bull seven years later, this was just in Orange County. We were doing 150,000 cases a month, you know, and we completely 10xed our business. So it was absolutely unbelievable, right? But like, and it wasn't just a me thing, we had a whole team of people uh around it and and some really great distributors and and really great, you know, uh programming uh to really make the thing go. You know, at the end of the day, the product worked, right? But but one of why I left Red Bull was I really felt a disconnect in my heart of hearts of like what I was doing and the product, I didn't really feel like it fit my life as much as I had wanted it to originally when I was 23. So I left. And I also saw started seeing that natural products were really moving in a different direction.

Speaker 2: 14:41
Yeah.

Speaker 1: 14:41
And so for me, I I made that decision to jump on that natural product train and really kind of do something a little bit different. I love Red Bull, uh, I love the people at Red Bull, I love the culture at Red Bull, I love what Red Bull represents and does. Probably not the best beverage for me day in, day out. Just gonna say it. Um, but man, I had uh some of the best uh experiences of my life with some of the best people in the industry there. It's just it was a great place to work and learn and develop, but uh I really think they were forward thinking even before social media on who are the different opinions, who are the main consumers, how does our product fit into their daily lives? How do we create um ways to communicate and and ways to intercept and launch trial and awareness campaigns uh in a way that is genuine, in a way that is like different, right? And and and you know, we can get to the scalability in a sec. I know you had a question on scalability, so we can talk about that, but you know, it's just it's so interesting, uh, the way that it prepared me for the greater marketing to be done.

Speaker: 15:52
Yeah, at that point, I mean, I think um yeah, Red Bull's become, I mean, one of the most well-known, well-respected brands in the world. And it seems like you can totally correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like one of the ways that key ways that they've done that is is just having a really well-run, well-organized field marketing org. Like I, you know, I think about Red Bull, I think about those um the Red Bull branded Mini Coopers that like drive right everywhere, like the places that they they need to be. And like I'm kind of curious, just from yeah, what I guess what have what were some of your biggest takeaways in terms of how to build like a really well-run kind of field marketing org, and then how do you scale it up to the you know, the scale that Red Bull has gone to today where it still seemed like it's it's very well organized.

Speaker 1: 16:31
Yeah, I think uh I think everybody would love to say, yeah, Red Bull can do it, we can do it too. And that's that's just not the truth.

Speaker: 16:40
Right.

Speaker 1: 16:41
It's it's not easy to do what Red Bull did. You know, I think there's there's a lot to be said for how they go to market. Uh I would almost argue now not every brand needs to have field marketing. There's other ways to go to market. You know, I think I think at the end of the day, like what Red Bull did well was a couple of things I took away from Red Bull was this be genuine. Consumers know bullshit when they see it, and they also know premium value when they see it. They know it, they know it, don't bullshit it, just be real, right? But also can you can you be genuine and also use that as an advantage to do the unexpected? Because if you're genuine in your approach and you do something that's unexpected, you create what I call these wow moments, right? These these were at Red Bull we called them one word of mouth moments, right? Um and you know, at the end of the day, we would do things to create word of mouth. Love or hate Red Bull was an okay thing, you know. When you think of energy, it's positive and negative. It's okay if certain people don't like it. You know, what's also interesting is it's not always about the the coolest and the hippest if you're really trying to drive consumption, it's it's creating something of value and then delivering it in unique ways to people day in, day out. Because it's way cool, you know, like to have all these sexy, sports-oriented, amazing, you know, videos and all these things. I mean, Red Bull puts out some of the best content in the world. It is absolutely mesmerizing. I absolutely I don't often I don't drink the brand day in, day out like I used to, but I sure as heck consume the media day in, day out because it is still some of the best in the world. And you you could almost argue that Red Bull is almost more of a media agency now than it is a uh just a beverage brand, but it's still a lifestyle brand. It's a brand that people connect with and share with. You know, I think the one thing to realize is that even though a brand was built out of a can, an 8.3 ounce can, single flavor, low of they had one product when I was selling Red Bull. It was a 12-pack of Red Bull. 12 pack, 8.3 ounce cans of Red Bull. That's how we sold it. Simple, nothing crazy. I mean, I think we got crazier when we brought in a 24-pack. Woo! Look out, you know, but um and then we went sugar-free, and people like, oh my gosh, right? But like the thing is it was all about connecting with consumers, and when you're building consumption and you've got this like image, right? So it's a con it's a it's a balance, a delicate balance at times between image building and consumer collecting is kind of how we refer to it, right? But at the end of the day, it's taking that cool concept and allowing the every man to and every woman and every person to participate, right? Regardless of what they love to do. And what was really cool was the same way that you make an athlete's day by giving them wings and allowing them to fly, right, and have their energy to focus their body and mind is the same way that a construction worker, which was one of our top demographics, believe it or not, the same way that that construction worker, someone stops with a silly car with a can on the back of the car, stops, hands them an ice cold Red Bull at two in the afternoon and work their butts off all day, and is like, hey, I hope you have a great day. You know, enjoy that stuff was amazing. Like we would get people talking about it and sharing it and caring. You know, we did these all these different programs nationwide, but so what how did Red Bull do that, right? Because you you specifically talked about the car, right? The car was just one portion of the marketing news, right? So, like we had a combination of influencer or or opinion leader marketing, and then we also had consumption building activities, right? And so, like, what did Red Bull do well to scale a field marketing organization? Well, first of all, Red Bull's marketing, they look at everything as marketing. So people today say, oh, sales and marketing. No, it's just it's just marketing and we sell product, but we we are all about how we bring that product to market, right? Whether you're on whether you're on a self proclaimed sales front or a marketing front or operations front, it's All marketing. Everybody's a marketer in the Red Bull organization, right? But the unique thing about that is because everybody's got the mind of a marketer, they really focused on unifying their brand message. Early days was brand training after brand training after brand training. You were indoctrinated as a brand leader into the organization. And brand leaders weren't just marketers, brand leaders were sales traditionally today called salespeople, traditionally called operations. Everybody was a part of the brand marketing. And the reason was is it was we were trying to unify one message. Yeah. And we were trying to create great stewards of Red Bull to support the overall growth. And we would provide these employees or owners of the brand tremendous resources to go out and share and be that brand evangelist, if you would, in their region. Yeah. And indoctrinate others into the Red Bull family. And we got really good at sharing this both locally, regionally, nationally. And it was, it had a little to do with the mix. Like the marketing mix was just some of the tools that we used. But it all came started and ended with one unified message. And that that one unified message was all about the history, the story, you know, how we came, how we brought things to life and our why, right? Really giving people wings, you know, to help with their body and mind. Right. When you think about that, that message, it's still here today. And it was done in different ways, right? So you had this polarizing effect going on. You see these even today. I think I saw one of the early Red Bull commercials that they just re-released for, I think it was around college, a football playoff, but it was like, you know, this it was so interesting, right? It's this fuzzy bunny like commercial, you know, where the devil's talking about something and he's like got a fork and whatever. But it's interesting, right? Because it's very opposite of Lindsay Vaughn's and the athletes that you're gonna see this Olympics. But they're actually joined through this element of surprise and delight, the way that they bring this to life is in the body and mind, right? So when you see some of these athletes, some of the best athletes, the the best athletes in the world are are wearing Rebel stuff. Yep. I know, yeah, you can say, oh, the monster guys are this and that, and it's one big fight at the top, right? But I'll tell you what, you know, I'm a Rebel guy. I'll tell you what, the best we would seek out the best athletes in the world. Totally. And um, and we would create this message that got unified. We would empower great people to share that message around the the communities, but then we would arm them, right? We would arm them with ownership. They didn't necessarily own the brand, it was owned by one person, well, a couple people, Dietrich and his partner, you know, at the time, but we would allow them, we've allowed people to own it in their region, and that regionality made it even more powerful, right? Now, the trick with this is like when you see things winning, you share things with others, right? And so when you say, hey, look, we're gonna go hire 50 you know field marketing people, then we're gonna go hire 50 field sales market trade marketing people, and we're gonna go hire 50 on-premise marketing people, call them salespeople, whatever, but now they call them salespeople. But you're talking about bar nightclub marketing, you're talking about full trade distribution and marketing and full field marketing. People are gonna think you're nuts, but we didn't, we didn't the way it was explained to me is like, because I asked, like, why would you bring on so many stinking people? And they basically are like, look, the US is different. They spent from 1987 to 1997, 10 years, and they hadn't entered the United States yet. Wow. And they came to the states in 97, and 98, you could almost say they kind of failed. The first CEO left. And then they said, Look, we're gonna double down on the investment. And you know, the way it was explained to me was like this we divided up the country into fifths, and we said, what happens if each one of these regions within the next five years says $250 million in business? We'd be a multi-billion dollar brand. And I'll tell you what, they never look back. But in order to get there, it wasn't just about the marketing mix, right? It's this balance between consumption and influence, yes. But it was really about how they delivered that message to consumers in unexpected ways, right? You have these flying day competitions where the everyday person can be their own pilot and build their own flying machine. And oh, by the way, you gotta huck it off of a 30, 40 foot freaking pier and hope that you get the longest flight. Fun as all heck, by the way. Fluke Tog is one of the best events they've got. It's so you know, it's so fun, so fun. But then, you know, they balance it with you know, some of these world-class racers in F1 and these, you know, guys doing daredevil-ish stuff in wing suits, and it's like mind-blowing stuff. But that's exactly it, right? Because some of it is meant to blow your mind.

Speaker: 28:06
Totally.

Speaker 1: 28:07
Because it's mind and body, right? Yeah, so everything that Red Bull does is really interesting. Very, very fortunate to have learned marketing from them. Very fortunate to have played a little part here in the U.S. Still absolutely love it, even though I don't drink it every day now, getting older, past them 50. But uh, you know, it's just it's pretty amazing to see what has transpired.

Speaker: 28:28
I totally hear that. Shifting gears a little bit. I think it was in 2019, Novamex you did that roll-up where they kind of rolled up C2O Stees and I think a few of those other brands. Just first off, just at a high level, what was kind of like the original kind of thought process of the company and kind of why I feel like it made sense to group these three brands to together, a few brands together.

Speaker 1: 28:50
Yeah, I mean, I think to understand that, you have to understand that Novomax was built on partnerships. There are they are such great people with just amazing business skills that know how to partner with brands, but also know where there's an opportunity and areas to learn. And, you know, we had the we had a partnership with Novomax on the C2O side. That's where I started with Novomax, was on the C2O team, and C2O was in integration with Novomax. They had also had Stees, Organic Ice T, which was part of the the group as well. And um, you know, Novamex is uh uh really interested in in developing brands, right? And bringing them to market day in, day out. Um they they've done arritos, they also had a uh big play in Cholula and some of these other brands over the over the history of the company. Um so we formed naturals or Nova Naturals, if you would, as a division of Novamex, really to put a focus on the natural products that we had. We had some great people. Um, you know, we've done uh some pretty interesting things. Uh when you have multiple brands, you can't have multiple people calling on the same customers, and just made uh perfect sense for us to consolidate it into a team of people that are highly focused on natural, and then could also be that voice of natural and education on natural and and the brands to the greater company as well. So it's a fun matrix to work in. It's not easy, but it's uh totally different, and you know, very fortunate to be a part of this group. We formed uh Nova Naturals about five years ago, and uh we're continuing to grow our uh our brands and are continuing to grow our share of the marketplace. We have some great team members, and we integrate with the great team members on total Novamex side too, which is awesome. So, you know, so we're we're kind of that natural focus group, but then we also steer our brands across the general market as well uh from a natural perspective. So it's pretty, it's a it's a fun time. It's not not easy, but it's very different.

Speaker: 30:56
Yeah, totally. You have somewhat of a might call it a shared services approach, or you've got kind of a centralized team that supports, you know, no C2O and Stees, and you know, the brands kind of together. I'm just kind of curious in terms of how's that kind of work in practice on a day-to-day basis, and how do you kind of you know align around resources when there's a bunch of competing priorities across these multiple brands?

Speaker 1: 31:20
Yeah, look, I mean, nothing's perfect, right? I'm an optimist, so like always trying to find the the opportunity within the the synergies and white space. I'm also an entrepreneur, so like I have an entrepreneurial mindset and I love looking at at how we can create value uh from shared from shared relationships. So like when we look at you know Nova Naturals and kind of how we balance it between C2O and STES, like it's no easy feat. Like let me let me just say, like, it's not perfect, but we did and have been able to find some really cool synergies for the the brands to help bring them to market. I think that the trick is, you know, people say, well, how do you make that work? And kind of just like what you said, it's like the trick is to keep it simple and look for the value that you can deliver for your organization without overcomplicating things. Because the minute, you know, the minute you start overcomplicating things, it just becomes a quagmire, right? So like we've really tried to keep things as simple as we possibly can, but also deliver, you know, the value that we can. And we look for synergies across both, you know, C2O and Cs to drive total value for the organization. And it comes in the form of different things. I can't give away all of our little secrets. There's a little bit of secret sauce in there. I'm just gonna say it. Uh, but and it's and it's a rootless travel, right? But I think at the end of the day, like really focusing on um opportunity and really figuring out as a group what your shared goals are so that you can deliver maximum value to all the different parties involved. And and you know, we're we're constantly aligning teams internally to make sure everyone is working towards those set goals, right? It's not it's not easy, but then we're constantly setting and and reprioritizing different things, but we do have quarterlies and annuals that we're working towards, and those are our our goalposts that we're we're marching towards, right? So we just continue to evolve our teams and and develop them as groups, so it's not easy, but it also just helps us rationalize what's important to all of us, right? So we get everyone aligned on what's important for the business, and then we start taking everyone in that direction and uh we ask them to participate. It's not just uh a directive, it is a active participation. So really, really cool to be a part of this team that has so many just brilliant minds working on some of these cool projects that we're trying to steer and develop uh our our brands into as far as business drivers to really continue to elevate Nova Naturals and build out to greater business. There's no year that's exactly the same here, which is great. Uh so it's uh it's a fun, it's a fun place to work. I get to work with great people and we get to do some cool stuff.

Speaker: 34:31
Totally. Specifically on the on the Stees brand. So I think the Nova Natural acquired in 2016. Then I think over time, I think what I've heard you read, I think you did an interview or two or something along those lines. And I heard you say that over time the brand just lost its way a bit in terms of the core mission and focus, and then which ultimately led to a recent decision to go through a pretty significant kind of overhaul from both a brand and I think formulation perspective as well. So I'm just kind of curious, maybe just from the at a high level, the question of why, what led the decision to go through this this pretty big initiative and this pretty big overhaul in the first place?

Speaker 1: 35:09
Well, the why is the why. Let me just say that, Adam. So, like, you know, I I think the the piece of this is like why would you do something? Well, first of all, let me just say I don't think it was as massive as maybe you're making it out to be. No, no, no, but uh, but I think what it what I would refer to it as is a little bit more of a refinement, right? Yeah, we at Steve what Stees was originally created by Eric and Steven, Eric Chanel, Steven Kessler. And you know, it was it passed into Nestle and then it ended up in in Nobamax, and there were different teams along the way that were managing it. And my team wasn't necessarily involved with it. We were really at the on the C2O side uh for a bit. And you know, anytime you have multiple people working on multiple things, there can be uh brain drain and there can also be drift from what the original intention was. So the team and I started to see some of this. Like we were asking the question of why why stees? Why is Steve important? What's you know, what is important as well, but why is more important for that what than anything else? And really, what we came down to was we were missing something. There's something that occurred in the translation of passing down, you know, the brand, it wasn't fully connecting the way that it should or could. And uh a lot of people had different views on the brand, and so we did something non-traditional. We we actually went back to the founders. We happened to bump into Stephen Kessler at Expo West a couple years back, great guy, and you know, he kicked it off and hit it off with Adam Biggs, and little do you know, like Eric Chanel and Steven and I and Adam end up on a call with Ron Green, who's our CEO, and we're just talking this through of like we think we're missing something, and help us understand the original why for this brand. And if if Stees, if you were to launch Stees today, what would it be? What would it look like? And and that was the question. We started asking questions, right? Because you know, you kind of you don't know until you start asking those hard questions of like, what are we missing? And we had to take kind of it was it was a humbling experience because, like, you know, we had just rebranded this probably three years prior, and we were looking at this and like it's not something's missing, and we couldn't figure out what it was, and really what it was is you know, getting the founding fathers, if you would, in this case, back into the brand to understand. Hey guys, help us understand your genesis, help us understand what Stees would look like today, help us understand the difference in you know, in what you're trying to make with Stees when you originally created it and how it would translate into today. And you know what? Stees was the first organic brand, not just T brand, first organic brand from what Eric and Steven were telling us. Is the first organic brand, USDA organic brand, to come off the line. And like they had to take it through that process, and their co-packer partnered with them to get their first USDA organic certified logo. Now it's not just a logo, it's because they were what was important to them was the farmers. What was important to them was the sourcing, what was important to them was making a difference and having a product that actually had an impact on this world in a positive manner. What was important to them, right? Today, it's interesting, they they took the learnings from Stees and developed them into these five Ps for their process now, right? So Stees originally had three Ps, people, product, planet, right? Really, really cool. But they're they're also focused on there's two additional ones, right? And those those two additional ones were really to help them connect with consumers and and it's all about prosperity, right? And this and creating positivity within the a product and allowing people to participate in the prosperity of not just prosperity isn't just creating a product that makes money, prosperity is everyone that comes in contact with that brand benefits from the sourcing to the planet to the people to the you know the consumers, and everyone that gets to participate now in Stees, because Stees now is the first regenerative organic certified tea to hit the market in the US, you know, ready to drink tea. Um, there's loose leaf tea out there, but ready to drink bottled tea, stees is the first. And the premise was to get back to the why of what we would call doing good by brewing good, making an impact with every can of Stees that we manufacture, sell, and and add value to people's lives. And so, like, we started reworking on how do we bring that to life. And so we started looking at, okay, guys, could we partner with you? And we partnered with their agency, then beyond brands, on helping us to bring Eric and Steven back into this a bit and to understand the why. And we asked hard questions and we listened and we listened some more and got some consumer feedback and started talking through, you know, different things along the way of what was missed, where and when, and how how we even had a founders day where we got to meet Eric and Steven and hear all of their stories from Genesis, and it was like an unlocking for our team of wow. And like we had no idea what we had missed. And and then it then we went to work, you know. We started working with them on sourcing regenerative organic tea. Because when we when Cs was placed into Nova Naturals, we were buying tea from a tea broker. We you know, we were which isn't bad. It was it was fair trade, it was organic, it was quality tea, but we didn't have a relationship with our farmers. Right. We didn't have uh a full understanding of the supply chain, we didn't have the full understanding of the impact that the supply chain could have. We also didn't have a real give back in the form of which we have now, which is a 1% for the planet. We actually have 1% for the planet on there, not just because it's a cool badge, we have it on there because it makes an impact. It forces us to every year ask the question of how are we going to create a better planet? How are we going to create an impact on the people around us and create strategies to deliver upon that? So I'm you know, I'm happy to say, like with our tea provider now, Wild Orchard, we're partnering with them on farmer education programs, we're partnering with them on other ways to educate both internal and external customers. We're figuring out other ways. We're also partnering with Whole Foods and other core natural retailers, the sprouts, et cetera, on impact programs where we can, you know, and and trying to give back in ways that create conversations around regenerative organic certification because regenerative organic is is different. It's not just organic, it's actually creating a regeneration of the land. So, like you've heard the term sustainability. Sustainability really just means we're not doing any harm. Right. Right? It's sustainable. Well, you didn't do any harm, but you didn't help anything either. Regenerative organic is we're not just sustainable, we're actually putting in practices that make the land better than where it was before. We're putting in systems that that ensure animals and and animals and and farmers alike that care for the crops and care for the land are treated fairly and treated in humane ways and provided fair wages. In this case, it's direct trade, so it's even better than fair trade. You know, it's we know who is receiving it, we know how to benefit them, we've created a long term supply. Partnership with Wild Orchard and the team to develop a regenerative organic certified tea and bring it out in the form of stees to do good for the world. So it's not just doing good, but we're brewing good and we're doing good and we're putting it all in a can for people to participate. And we're trying to bring the value to those consumers day in and day out. So pretty exciting, man. It's the road less traveled, but probably one of the most rewarding experiences of I've had in marketing.

Speaker: 44:37
I think that's definitely going to resonate with consumers too. I think it's going to show through.

Speaker 1: 44:40
Yeah, it's different, man. A lot of different things we had to do with it, you know, looking at it from a consumer perspective, what was going to stand out on shelf, you know, all your classic marketing stuff, but at the end of the day, getting the base right is the most important.

Speaker: 44:55
On that topic, I guess let's just say I was a brand leader at a pretty fast-growing, you know, fairly established CPG brand, like let's just say C2O water, but both of them are very well established. And I told you, hey, I'm I'm considering a packaging refresh. What kind of questions about you asked me to just help me understand is a packaging refresh even the right strategy in the first place?

Speaker 1: 45:20
Yeah, I mean, I mean, there's a lot to it, okay? Like there's a way, there's a lot of ways to extrapolate, like, you know, someone who's coming to that decision and and and work through all the different questions. But I think for me, I would start with why. It sounds simple, you know. Everyone's like, oh, Simon Senec, this and that, why. But I'll tell you what, if you get your why right, it can really help you unlock the reasoning behind all the other moves that you're going to make. And, you know, I think I don't think people give him enough credit on that book of why, because it really is that genesis, but it it it's so theory and sometimes uh out there for people to go, well, why? You know, and like why are you considering this? What's causing you to believe that you need to make this change? Yeah, who who are your consumers and are they the ones that are telling you that you need to make this change?

Speaker: 46:31
Yeah.

Speaker 1: 46:32
You know, how does how do you validate it?

Speaker: 46:35
Yeah, totally. That's that's a great point. Especially for an established brand, like let's just use you know Stees as an example. Like, how did you obviously you do you felt like there were some things that work needed to be done, but obviously it's a brand that's well established. It definitely has some, you know, has a lot of loyal fans. And how did you kind of think about balancing the need for a fresh look and kind of communicating, you know, the some of the changes are regenerative, organic, and all that kind of stuff, and all the other kind of refresh messaging versus keeping some of the familiar legacy brand elements for those existing customers? They'll recognize it right away, it still resonates with them. Also, it's not so different than when they're go to the grocery store the next time, they actually can immediately still recognize it on the shelf and make sure they don't walk right by it. That makes sense.

Speaker 1: 47:20
Yeah, look, Steve's is a 24, almost 25-year-old T brand. It was the first organic T brand. How do you how do you as a marketing person and marketing team and business team not mess it up? Yeah. Because like, look, it's tricky and nothing's perfect. How did we come to this conclusion? I think when we started to see that, you know, when we made an initial change in 2021, 2022, we came out, and like we were handed a brand that was from this previous team that was kind of all over the board. It was like very it was a little messy, like the the consistency on the reasoning behind why they ended up here and and how they ended up here. We also began looking at the sourcing and like why are we going through a broker when we should be knowing who our farmers are? Why are we so these are all whys, right? Why are we, you know, trying to talk planet if we don't have a true initiative that gives back into the health of the planet? Why are we you know trying to create energy drinks and energy shots and all these other things? Why why are we trying to do that? And and it's challenging, right? Because you have so many different opinions. Yeah. And so for us, we were just at that time, we thought, I'll be honest, there was a little bit of an ego. Like we were trying to figure it out, and like we thought we knew, and we're like, well, we have this energy, we had an energy skew, we had a green tea skew, we had plans for a yurba mate because yerba mate was on fire. We gotta we're a tea company, we gotta be in that in that yeah, in that business. And what we what we learned was we were all wrong. Our yurba mate was good, it tasted great, guaia key was great, but what we didn't realize before this was when we talked to Eric and Steven, did did you know, Mike, that Stees used to have strategic partnerships with Guayaquil and also Sambazon to not market and against each other but to lift each other up? No, didn't know that. Why? Why the why was because all of us were aligned around doing better for the planet, and we had decided if we're gonna create uh movement, we're not gonna attack each other, we're gonna go after the marketplace. I was like, wow, right? Mic drop. So like asking yourselves why some of these things could have helped us, but also we created Stees Mike and team, not just Mike thing, but you're talking to me. Um we they told me we created Stees as a green tea. Why are we not just green tea? And I couldn't answer that question. Right? So like we started looking at the whys, and they were challenging us and we were challenging them, and we were like, what's important? The other thing was um on our previous I got a can here, but on our previous can you know, we we had this I don't know if you can see it. Hold on, yeah, yeah, I can see yeah. So the the flower of life here is cut off. The question Eric and Steven ask is why did you cut off that flower of life? Because the flower of life is a regenerative flower, the flower of life is not to be cut off, or else you cut off its life for it. The flower of life is a continuous design speaking to the regenerative qualities of the green tea. Like these are some of the nuances in here that I'm using to explain that if we had known these things, we probably would not have ended up in this better mousetrap, if you would, that we were going to create. We would have anchored back into our why. And our why was so that the brand could have a purpose. But even before my team got the our hands on the brand, the sourcing had changed and the why on the sourcing had changed, and it had come a cost thing. And why on this over that had changed, like as far as different other ingredients that were used. Oh, because they were trendy. No, we're not trying to tap into trends, we're trying to create something of value, and it's very different. And you create something of value by understanding who you are, and sometimes it's a refining process in who you are. So if you're that person out there that is considering that rebrand, ask yourself the question why do I want to do this? What value is my brand creating today for my consumer? Why would I want to change it? Why did I get into this business and what did consumers gravitate towards? Why did they gravitate towards me? Why do they love my brand? For those who don't love your brand, why do you hate my brand so much? Sometimes those are the best questions. I'd rather have someone who's a lover or a fighter, but the plain old vanilla people, come on, we don't want, not that I don't want you. It's just I want people with opinions. Like, help me understand, right? Because at the end of the day, RY has to mean something. And for the founders and owner teams out there, because like I know Adam, you're dealing with folks that are like startup all the way to you know large CPG, but like for those, for that startup group, understand why you're doing something. Understand why it's valuable to you, understand why it's valuable to the people that you're delivering it to. Deliver it genuine and look for ways that you can improve it to add more value to their lives without compromising on your values. Right? And for and for those who are big CPG that are worried about how do I get to this? I keep asking.

Speaker 2: 54:00
Yeah.

Speaker 1: 54:01
Go back to why did this happen? What was the generes story? Why were they thinking this way at the time? How did we end up in this in this solution? Why were we dealing with all these different elements? You know, there's an explanation for some of this. The other thing, if you if you've got an older even brand that you're considering, do some consumer testing. There's some great groups out there. Used to be you'd have to be in-home to do an in-home usage test, you had to be a part of a big brand, and it was really costly. There's some really like smart, tactical, practical ways to go out and do it, whether it's through like a formalized service like highlight or taking your product into samplings, you know, it's interesting. I just saw an article on Ben Stiller in Whole Foods, and he's sampling at Whole Foods. And I know totally some of it is an entertainment thing and you know, a big thing there for entertaining, but it but it's still really interesting. And yes, it's getting the word out because he's a big celebrity, but it's still really interesting. If if if Ben really wants to understand why consumers, he's standing right there. There's no better place as an owner to sit at a demo table and learn about your brand and how it connects to help you refine your why.

Speaker: 55:24
Totally.

Speaker 1: 55:25
You know, product market fit is so important today. And whether you realize it or not, that's what you're doing as a depth. You know what I mean?

Speaker: 55:37
Yeah. So anyway, yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I was gonna say, like, on that topic of product market fit, yeah. Prior to Nova Naturals, you're letting market you led marketing at at Neurobrands. And I guess for those that don't remember this brand, it was really one of, I've remembered today is like one of the first, if not the first, like really functional beverage brands.

Speaker 2: 55:59
Yeah.

Speaker: 56:00
It resonated a lot, got it, caught a lot of attention. I think it was like grown super quickly for a while. Like looking back now, I'm kind of it feels the the brand is a bit ahead of its time. Obviously, now functional beverages is all the rage. I'm kind of curious, like, what's your what's your take on the kind of functional beverage category today? And if assuming you agree, if not, you can also tell me you disagree. Why may have just been a bit too early for neural brands and I don't know, anything else that jumps out in this vein.

Speaker 1: 56:26
You know, it's so interesting. I was just telling a friend of mine the other night that I worked at Neuro with. I was like, man, I really felt like Neuro was ahead of its time. He's like, Yeah, man, I I totally believe that and see it. It's so interesting, right? I was just at BevNet Live last month in December, and um, you know, there's all kinds of like functional products out, you know, and they're not just looking at uh energy, they're looking at all types of function, even in within the day part. I'm like, oh my gosh, it's almost like the revolution is coming back, you know what I mean? It's like I, you know, we all have those nostalgic things from our childhood that now all of a sudden our our kids, I have five kids, you know, they're coming back. I'm like, no way, that's back, right? Like, and uh I felt like that with Neuro, right? Because Neuro was circa 2012. In my mind, it was the first functional wellness product out there. It was really what, and we were trying to figure out how to brand it. We ended up calling it, you know, if you remember at the time, iPhone was huge. iPhone had just come out with all the little apps and all the little gizmos and gadgets. And regardless, there was there was an app for that. Yep. Do you remember that? There was an app for that. So we started to look at this, you know, cultural piece, and we started building a campaign around neuro being this operating system for life because we were trying to explain neurodrinks. Neuro basically meaning an impact on your mind, right? And a drink that you could drink, and it had different day parts. So, like we had a neurosonic for an which was like our energy skew, which was with L-theanine. So, caffeine and L-theanine, we learned that it would give you a heightened response and you know, not allow you to crash. It was really a lower calorie, 30 calories compared to Red Bull, which was 80, and we were in a 16 ounce, and Red Bull is an eight ounce. I mean, you figure out it's like 15 calories, 15, 25 calories on average per skew versus 80 to 120. I mean, it's ridiculous, right? And it was better for and and it came in a sexy bottle, right? People say, Oh, it looked like shampoo, but you know what? It broke at the shelf. Yeah, it broke people's eyes at the shelf. You knew exactly where it was, and uh we put it into you know this beautiful, elegant bottle with an overcap. It was not cheap to make. Neuro was was an expensive brand to produce, uh, and but you know what? It was all about delivering value. And so we we came up with this idea of neurodrinks, the operating system for life. So we had neurosonic, and then we had neurobliss. Neurobliss was really a lower caffeine beverage, if zero caffeine is where it eventually went, zero caffeine, and it had L-theanine in it too. And what we learned was L-theanine without as much caffeine would actually mellow you out a little bit, make you a little bit more stress-reliever, right? So that was kind of the temperaments that we had. We also had a neurosleep, right? Uh, which was a first melatonin beverage, and then we had neurosun, which was uh, you know, I think it was 3,000, what is it, 3,000 milligrams, I think it was, of vitamin D. So, you know, real importance of vitamin D. So this idea of you know, you're not gonna get the blues during sum during winter, right? Or being indoors all the time because you can have your vitamin D because vitamin D deficiency is great. Yep. And then there's neuro aqua and you know, a couple of our uh explicit neurogasm product we had. The infamous neurogasm, which uh our founder uh was absolutely, you know, interestingly enough, neurogasm uh top flavor, right? Interesting. Top flavor uh ranked by consumers, always ranked high on top flavor.

Speaker 2: 01:00:32
Interesting.

Speaker 1: 01:00:34
Lowest distribution by percentage point of ACV. Why? Because of the name, right? The minute we changed the name to Neuropassion, the SKU exploded on the scene and went into Kroger and went into a bunch of other retailers. Our founder, she wanted back at Gasm, so they changed it again, and I think eventually after I had left, they change it back, but never really caught wind. But it did create notoriety for the price. Um and NeuroDrinks was interesting, is we had all these functional day parts, and we we would say, like, regardless of your of your mood, mood or mind state, there's a neuro for that, right? So the same way that there's an app for that, there's a neuro for that. Because the neuro was, if you would think about it this way, the operating system for life. You could have something for energy, for hydration, for all these different day parts. The challenge with neuro was how do you package it up into a form and function that consumers could easily gravitate towards and find. I think when you go to at shelf today, it's interesting. Like at BevNet, I saw a lot of brands trying to break into multi-functionality. And multi-functionality is really interesting, however, it becomes a communication quagmire, and you have to really figure out how you're going to arm and develop your team. And you know, I also think like at the time when we were rolling out Neuro, when I started with Neuro, we were in five states. Within a year and a half of being there, uh, we rolled it out with DPSG and Pepsi nationwide. We got like close to 35,000 uh points of distribution that year. It was an unbelievable year. We positioned the brand. It was a breakout brand by BevNet. Like it was it was definitely something that was taking the communities and field by storm. Yeah. I think really what was interesting about it was we had the right communication mix. It was kind of Red Bull strategy to it. We had a right communication mix. We understood how to communicate the brand. We had strong branding at shelf and also beyond shelf in in media. And then what we did was we regionalized it with our core retailers as they rolled it out nationwide in an integrated media campaign. And um, that really helped to drive it. That really, really helped to drive it. And we got a lot of traction and consumption right away. Definitely, you know, but I think like anything, you know, you you have challenges. Um, you have challenges sometimes with ownership, you have challenges sometimes with investment, you have challenges on where's the long-term viability for where this is going. And they wanted to go in one direction, and some of our team didn't want to go in that direction. So, you know, a few of them left. Um but uh neuro was a great place to work, though, when we were all there, it was a tremendous product. Got nothing but great things to say about that team. It's it's unfortunate to see how it's kind of changed over the years, but I think the the challenge has been how do you communicate the multifunction of the brand? And that that's really, I think, where you've seen the decline. Like when we had this operating system for life and we were moving in this direction, we could encapsulate all the values of the product into one, and we were having traction because consumers could easily relate this. If I need this, I need I get that neuro. If I need this, I get that neuro. And as soon as you took the pedal off the metal and began just focusing on individual SKUs, people began to get lost in the mix of, oh, I thought this was a sleep product, or I thought this was an energy product, or you know, then there's then there's consumer confusion. And I think it's hard at times to recover from that. I also think there's just grand, there's things have taken place in the grander market, right? Like you've seen plastics uh change, right? So, you know, for a long time, Neural was still in that elegant hourglass-shaped bottle, extremely recyclable. They were trying to make it an RPET or whatever, improve it. Just hard to do, but I think consumers really prefer cans at times. Uh aluminum and glass are now on the upswing, right? It's not easy to do as a beverage manufacturer. Single-use plastics are, you know, finding a harder place to market themselves these days. But I mean, you still have large channels, it's still marketed. It's just um consumer trends are changing. So, yeah, how do you keep up with the brand and how do you keep up with the trends, right? You also have functional dosability now in that it's not just about beverages. You've got people that are taking powders and dosing their lifestyle. So you have a big shift that's occurred just within those five to seven years that has, you know, whether you like it or not, competed with your overall share of mouth. You know, so you know, melatonin's a lot more readily available and easy to use than gummies, right? You know, you're seeing. Energy sticks with lower calories and things that can be taken on the go. So it's really interesting to kind of see uh a brand that I think was at the forefront. Maybe they lost their luster a little bit, but uh when I was there, that brand was uh humming, and I'm proud to say that uh the team that we had around it and the ownership that was in place uh was great in really helping us kind of uh break through in the marketplace.

Speaker: 01:06:26
That's awesome. Yeah, it sounds like it was a great journey. Last question for you, Mike. Uh yeah, man. Pick one. I'll pick, let you pick either one. You had to pick one specific brand you've been just kind of following for fun or as it's piqued your interest, or one kind of specific trend and just CPG in general, it's kind of piqued your interest. I'll let you pick one and uh yeah, cheers what comes to mind first.

Speaker 1: 01:06:50
Man, it's so hard to choose. I mean, it it's hard to ignore the large macro categories, right? When you start looking at protein, like the protein revolution that is taking place today. I mean, it is is nuts. I remember, you know, I was at Pro Yo, high protein ice cream, which became swell foods, and uh, you know, I was talking with uh executive at Starbucks, she was one of the senior vice presidents, bumped into her actually at one of the stores here in Southern California, and she's like, What do you do? And I'm like, I do product marketing, you guys need more protein in your stores. You know, and at the time I was she's like, What do you do? I do a high protein ice cream. But I was telling her, I was like, it's hard to find items in your stores, you need like looking at their assortment at that time. This is probably 2014, 2015. I was like, Look, you've got you need more nuts, you you've got opportunities here for like higher protein items, like you could even sell like in I was I was trying to sell some ice cream. Let's let's just be honest, high protein ice cream like that. But I think at the end of the day, it's really interesting to see today's environment, right? Of now this is probably 10 to gosh, maybe 12 years later. And what do you have? You have Starbucks claiming protein in all their beverages. I asked the guy that was serving me, I was like, has the protein really changed that much? He's like, We had some, you know, you know, concentrate, but most of it is protein that was already in the milk anyway. We're just claiming it. I was like, Right, you know, so like you really think of, but I think consumers are wise to some of this stuff. Let's not confuse ourselves, right? Let's not let's not say that our Starbucks is super healthy. There's ways to order Starbucks that are are healthy, but on average, like, come on, man. You know, like our the protein revolution is just getting going. I I I got a lot of respect for uh the way that some of these protein brands are coming to market these days, like being like highly focused and really lasered in on their community online and developing you know customer sales, you know, through online channels and key influencer and and really you know affiliate-based marketing. So like there's some amazing stuff going on. I think there's some really cool brands out there that I've just you know loved and admired. So it's it's interesting, right? So like you see vital proteins and got sold, right? Like a few years back. But like what they're doing still in the marketplace for the larger acquiring company, like they're really pushing the limit a little bit more. You see, Chomps has gone. I remember Chomps came out in Trader Joe's. I saw it at Trader Joe's for the first time, and then I was like buying them up because I was on keto and like love the brand even to this day. But there's still some other ones, right? Like the competitive set has just gotten even better, right? Yeah. So like you start looking at the way that these large retailers are are not just selling products, but they're developing products even on their own. Kirkland made a decision just to go and and create their own meat stick now. Like they don't just go into categories just to go into categories, they're going in because there's a long-term value. Yeah. That it that and and life changes that are occurring. But, you know, you also got the influx of GLP1 and other things that are that are impacting protein cells because people need to keep the protein levels high, right? Or else they're going to lose some of that skeletal muscle and some of these other things. So it's not just, you know, shooting it up and and losing weight. That's a great thing, but people are finding out that they need to still have a balanced diet, and higher protein is definitely a driver in those diets and trends. So it's uh it's one I'm continuing to watch. I'm really excited about what's coming out. It's always interesting to see the different channels and how they're um you know looking at the items. I love some of the uh different uh fish items that are coming out, believe it or not, for people to maintain healthy protein levels, like whether that's through great brands like Fishwife or some of these others that are that are out there. I mean, there's some like really cool brands that aren't just protein powders, but they're really fit within a healthier lifestyle, you know, even some of these uh Mediterranean diet lifestyles. So it's pretty interesting, and just um I'm a fan of what's going on in the market. I just I love to see people taking their health serious. I love to see people benefiting from high-quality products. I love to deliver high-quality products that offer consumers value to their lives. And so, like my positioning in the market as Mike Franz is a little bit different than most, and that I love developing brands that really truly add that value to people.

Speaker 2: 01:12:16
Yeah.

Speaker 1: 01:12:16
It can support them over the long term of their health versus just putting a product on shelf and and yeah, it's gonna be really successful, but is that really where I want to be at the end of the day? When when I meet my maker, am I gonna be proud of the products that I brought to market to support people's lives? That's the decision that I had.

Speaker: 01:12:36
I totally got. I definitely love that. Well, yeah, Mike, this has been awesome. So many great insights here. You've uh so much great experience in this uh in this space. What's the best place for people to follow along with you if they want to follow your expertise, and then best place to follow along with uh Stees and C2O these days?

Speaker 1: 01:12:54
Yeah, you can follow along on uh LinkedIn, it's pretty easy, you know. Uh classic business channel, you know, you all uh hit different posts in there. You can follow me. Stees and C2O, really easy to get at. You know, we we've got all the social on both of those brands. So, you know, Instagram is just some beautiful ways that we bring the brands to life. You know, there's a lot of other ways too. We're having fun with TikTok and some of these uh uh new creatives as well. So get at us. You can find both brands online, you know, C2O, drinkc20.com or drinkstees.com. And um, you know, I'm on LinkedIn, Mike Franz.

unknown: 01:13:33
Perfect.

Speaker 1: 01:13:33
See you at you.

Speaker: 01:13:34
Awesome, Mike. It's been great. Appreciate the time. Think that's the pod. Yeah, buddy. Good to see ya.

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