Bootstrapping to $7M+ Profitably | Jackson Jones, Farm To Pet

Speaker: 00:00
Welcome to Shelf Help. Today we're speaking with Jackson Jones, founder and CEO of Farm to Pet, Chicago company behind the single ingredient chicken chip. What started in a basement with it with a kitchen aid dehydrator and uh a rescue dog named Rooney's become a bootstrapped, vertically integrated business doing I think 7 million plus a year in sales all profitably. Prior to to Farm to Pet, Jackson was leading supply chain at morgues like Berkshire Hathaway, Duracell, the Marman Group. So a lot of experience at all things ops and supply chain. So yeah, excited to have you on Jackson. Is first off for the the listeners that maybe aren't as familiar with Farm to Pet, love to just start with a quick lay of the land just in terms of the origin story, why behind the brand, what the Core Pana client looks like, and then uh we'll take it from there.

Speaker 1: 00:46
All right, great. Well thanks, Adam. It's great to uh talk with you again. Yeah. Um I always like to start with uh I don't even have my prop, but I'd like to start with our chip because that's kind of where things started. Um so we make single ingredient dog treats and in the form of a little chip, you know. So I like to show these to kind of show what it looks like. It only contains chicken breast, you know, this one. You know, we also do turkey, beef, and walleye. But I wanted to start with something that was healthy and simple to make and easy, you know, for my dog. And that's really how I played around to come up with this concept. There were other things out there in the marketplace that were similar, but I just had this idea that uh, you know, dogs being carnivores and and they they want to eat meat, they love meat. How could we get this in a portable format to give the dog? As you stated, you know, kind of played around with that during COVID in the basement, uh, experimented with a couple different options until I got it down to where the chips look the same as they do today. And and these chips, you know, just put them in the bags. I started selling at a couple local places here in Chicago, not selling, just tried trialing them. And and they were hit with uh not only my dog Rudy, but but others. So so that was really the the starting to it. Um it wasn't a business at that point, more or less just a concept. And and since then we've been lucky enough to kind of grow and expand and eventually left my my corporate world job and and did this whole time.

Speaker: 02:03
When you chatted things a week or two ago, I think you told me something along the lines of those years of your career helped in some areas expose some weaknesses as well. I imagine it's maybe primarily related to just the differences of large-scale companies versus the startup environment. Want to tell me a bit more in terms of what you meant by that?

Speaker 1: 02:18
Yeah, I mean, uh I was blessed to have exposure to obviously wonderful organizations with Berkshire and their subs with the Marmot Group, learned a ton, had some great mentors, really had a clear operating uh methodologies. We would go into a facility to whether it was to start a facility, change something to the facility, or even close a facility, you really kind of learned uh, you know, what are the things to look for? How do you organize people, equipment, machines, products, et cetera, supply chains to make it uh a profitable, efficient business. And you know, I again I was blessed to go to tons of different locations, and most of the locations seem to have a problem or an issue that say, hey, go here, help with this, do that. And so that was a lot of fun to pick up on all the different ways that people organize their businesses, the systems, you know, uh how they how they treat their people, how they organize. But to your point, when you look at a small company, when you're the first person, and then you add another person and you you add kind of that way organically, you know, it's it it it presents a whole host of different challenges. Uh you don't have the resources to fix the equipment, you don't have the resources to get all the equipment that you want to start with. You don't have the resources to have to have a production manager, have a quality person. So you do what you can and and you you learn that way. And and as you grow, you know, now we've been able to add a few of those roles and the positions that we didn't have before, but you know, we still don't have a budget to say, hey, you know, okay, next year we're gonna spend X million dollars on you know equipment and people. And and in a corporate world, you spend a lot of time arguing or presenting or making a case for why you need this amount of money for the following year. The cycles are slow, there's a lot of kind of internal feedback that you get, and you're really making a case to have a plan. And and when you're doing a startup, I really didn't have a plan. You know, when I started, I I I just knew that these were great products, a great product. Uh my dog loved them, and it felt like there was a marketplace. As I dug in the marketplace, there was I I I saw there was a real gap, you know, for what we make. And anyways, but that wasn't a plan. That wasn't a plan saying, hey, this year I'm gonna do this and this and this and this. And so it was really kind of hands-on, try to figure out how to get the next batch made. You know, the sales actually came pretty easy. So our really since we started, our constraint has been how much we can make. The the the communities that we've been in reached out to either carry our products or our customer base, you know, I didn't have any background on marketing, but you know, I think they were drawn to the product and and you know, once their dogs had it, they it was easy to get repeat uh business. So luckily that was that was kind of embedded in the product. I I fell under that one. And so I was able to skip marketing one-on-one and until you know really we had a nice customer base, and I focused on really trying to make enough to satisfy that customer base.

Speaker: 04:59
That makes sense. Or a part where you had that first small facility, you start to outgrow that one, and that was the point where you got to this choice where you're like, all right, either gotta double down on this, move to a bigger facility, quit the day job and go all in on this, or cut my losses from here. Talk me a bit about that decision and how you ultimately came to say, yeah, I'm gonna go all in on this.

Speaker 1: 05:18
Yeah, I mean when you when you're making stuff at your house, there's there's a very limited number that you can that you can produce, especially uh these small treats like that. So, you know, quickly came into what do I do? We bought some dehydrators and found a place, a very small place that I rented next to a uh a distributor that that actually has poultry and meat and and other things. And so I rented like a basically a little room, you know, put the electrical in there and and uh found someone that that uh had the capacity to come help me and and his brother, and we just started. We started making these things and uh and you know, we we had low ceilings, not a lot of room, not the right equipment, but we were able to produce enough to kind of get that the business off and and going. Once we got on Amazon, uh I was actually surprised that that things did pick up for us. And so that was really what pushed us to say, hey, this isn't gonna work. So I either gotta can't just you know be a business that's making a you know a couple hundred bags and that's it. So do I want to continue this? Do what are the options? And at that point, um, you know, I kind of went all in and you know, talked to my wife, and I think she knew what I was getting into at the time, but said, Hey, uh, I would like to really do this. I really enjoy it. Um, I think there's opportunity here, and purchased uh our first factory in in Chicago at that time. Purchase did process, did not go as smoothly as we would like for a whole host of reasons, but but by that time, you know, we had a factory, we had a product, we had customers, and so we were really in. So I I did the best I could to kind of balance my exit from um from the corporate world, did some consulting with them for a while as I it was very transparent as I said, hey, I'm gonna build this, I can still help out and and transition that way.

Speaker: 06:56
When you started working on the product, and you described it to me, it was not really innovative, but more about pulling everything else away to make this really simple one ingredient chicken chip product. Uh, I mean it sounds simple, but I imagine it's not as simple as as it as that sounds. Like what what did the RD formulation process look like? You know, how long did it take to get to product that you felt was actually ready to go to market?

Speaker 1: 07:18
Yeah, I mean I I definitely skipped a bunch of steps when we're making this at the house, but uh you know if I look back at that time, you know, you can't you can just make something and you can sell it, but there's there's a lot of compliance that you need to do. There's things that for food safety you need to do, you know, whether it's humans or animals. And so, you know, I started with with uh you know finding companies that could test, you know, what what's in here to get the guaranteed analysis, check for bacteria. I went and visited a number of co-manufacturers that were making things similar, and none of them were interested in you know being you know, supporting a startup that didn't really have a customer base, but even I think more eye-opening to me was the types of proteins that they were using and then the other things that they wanted to put into the product for various reasons, for cost reasons and for longevity on the shelf. And I guess it wasn't until I figured out that we really don't need to put anything else into this product. You know, a dehydrated chicken, you know, at the right moisture level, you know, processed the right way uh with the kill steps and and whatnot to make sure there's no bacteria and and handle it appropriately, does not need all that extra stuff that you're gonna see in a lot of a lot of the dog treats on the shelf today. And so that was really the piece that gave me the confidence to say, okay, we're on to something here. Let's go and and expand and and and see, you know, let's get into other proteins, let's think about more innovative ways that we can actually package and and and actually get this distributed to customers. And so, but it really started with with that piece, was to your point, tearing everything else away to say, what do we really need here to have a viable product that dogs love, it's healthy, you know, it it's tested, it meets all the requirements, you know, that that are out there, and that uh you know can also be shelf stable too. That that was a big one. So we're we're two years on the shelf. So that was that was very important for the retail side as well as for the customer size, because it is a treat and you're not feeding it all in in one sitting. You know, you want to be able to have these bags, you know, open them, give, give it to them, you know, whether it's training, whether it's a snack, you know, there's a lot of different use cases people have for the treats, but you want to make sure that they are are shelf stable and and there's something that the if it if they weren't, it would be really hard to make the business case.

Speaker: 09:24
Yeah, totally. And from a brand identity and visual identity packaging design standpoint, when you're building out the initial versions, I'm not sure if it's evolved over time. What were some of the key things, key variables that were top of mind for you when you were you were building out kind of the look and feel, tone voice, how you want to position the brand in the market?

Speaker 1: 09:42
Yeah, uh definitely a work in process. Very early on, you know, I came up with a farm to pet. I felt that was an appropriate way to brand. You know, we did get a trademarked. And because, you know, I grew up, you know, my parents have have uh are kind of part-time farmers, but my grandparents, I spent a lot of time there who were full-time farmers in in western Illinois. And on the other side, my grand grandparents were also kind of part-time farmers. So really grew around, you know, farmland, a very rural area. And so I I spent a tremendous amount of time in my youth out there, really enjoyed, you know, kind of the farm life. So that was that was part of me. The the bag, you know, the barn on here is actually a depiction of my it's hard to see here, the lighting, but is a depiction of my uh grandparents' barn. It's called the Grey Barn. So I always loved that barn, you know, and so kind of took that drawing and and we kind of uh made it in the background on the packaging. So that was that was the other piece of it. And then uh I think the other idea was I wanted to have you know packaging and a product that to the packaging and really kind of all the associated media logos that were also simple. It kind of represented what you know our product is, you know, just a chip, right? So we didn't we didn't need to get too crazy. And and when we want to dress it up, we can dress it up, but at its core, you know, it it's a simple product that's that's healthy for your dog, easy, you know, not complicated instructions you need to have. You take it out of the bag, you give it to your dog. Um they love it, and and you can have a lot of fun with it as well.

Speaker: 11:09
Yeah. You built your out your own production facility in-house. I think you cycled through three to five different locations along the way as you continue to scale up. I think a good m a good amount, at least of CPG operators would probably say not to vertically integrate super early. You obviously have some unique skill sets from your supply chain background, but what were some of the key factors that push you to continue to focus on just building in-house vertic gun vertical versus searching for co-packers earlier on and or later on?

Speaker 1: 11:39
Yeah, I a whole bunch of different points went into reasoning there. I think, you know, number one, you know, I love the the form factor that we had. I didn't want to change it. So I was just non-negotiable on the size, the crunchiness, you know, the texture, and and obviously the ingredients. I didn't want to buy, you know, uh, you know, product that was not USDA inspected. You know, I didn't want to buy stuff that was filled with hormones and and that was uh kind of a you know thrown away from the human side to go into a pet food. So so that was number one, you know, I wanted to make sure I really understood the the the supply chain, you know, what we're what we're dealing with. And you know, when you're starting out, yeah, that you're basically putting, especially at that point, quitting my career to go put all your eggs in a basket that you picked the right co-manufacturer. So I just wasn't comfortable with that. But I think longer term, and and it's still there, is you know, I really wanted to build out the manufacturing. You know, we have you know, we have other products that are that are derivatives really of our chicken chips that that we do. And so we have, you know, now a facility and capabilities to be able to do a lot more things. You know, it costs a lot more, it's harder to scale to your point, it's slower. There's a lot of downsides to it, but you know, we weren't looking, I wasn't looking to say, hey, we want to have an overnight $10 million company. That was never my objective. And and especially being new into the space, being new founder, being new into DDC, all these things I'm learning and I'm getting a little smarter every day. I'm hiring good people, and same thing with them, right? They're they're they're getting a little smarter every day. And we're really building that up together as a team versus you know, kind of starting outsourcing, you know, our product and and what is uh a core to our business, right? Because without these these chips, you know, we're really not much. And and so I wanted to build that capability up as well to be able to manufacture at scale. For example, we make our cat line here, which is just you know, crushed up pieces of our chips, you know, so so that that's easy for the cats. And what's left over that, we also have a topper line. And so these toppers, you know, you can pour. And so we don't have any waste in our product. We don't have, you know, when we're bringing stuff in, we're producing 99.9 is actually going into a product here in our facility. So I thought that was something I had that vision from the beginning that that that is unique to us, and and our factory is solely focused on making farm to pet, no one else. And and so I was okay with taking the long road to get to where we would love to get to, knowing that it was gonna be a little harder. I didn't know how much it would cost, costs a lot more than what I ever imagined. I think that's been the biggest challenge is just really the the cash flow. You can't buy equipment until you have a lot of you gotta sell a lot of these treats to be able to afford the equipment that you need and and get the people that you need. But when I look back, I wouldn't have done it any any other way.

Speaker: 14:19
What what's your sense of what the math could look like in terms of the margin?

Speaker 1: 14:22
I'll tell you, uh I don't remember the exact math, but initially a co-manufacturer would have been much, much cheaper, right? So when you're starting out and you don't have any scale at all, um, you know, that that they would have been much cheaper. The nice part is, and we've seen a huge bump here by moving to a new facility. We've got some things in the works that will help us give another bump. Our our cost of goods has went down, you know, over time. And um, you know, we've we've been able to buy well in terms of our proteins, uh, and and that's got a little bit smarter, a little bit better. And then obviously how we operate gets a little better, equipment gets a little better. So all these things have helped us to get the c I don't know if we completely close the gap, but we're we're close, right? So to your point, it's I don't think it's materially different for the the margin standpoint. CapEx is the the hard part, right? So you gotta still you know still cash out the door, you gotta pay for equipment, you gotta take a loan, you gotta do something to to be able to get the equipment. But uh from a margin perspective, yeah, we're we're in a great spot. Uh and I expect it will only get better for us as we continue to kind of hone our skills and on the manufacturing side.

Speaker: 15:20
Is there any scenario where you might you you might think that you'd use a copacker for maybe some new product format you want to launch, you'd have capabilities internally, or do you think regardless of what it is, like some new product format you still want to figure out in-house?

Speaker 1: 15:32
Yeah, it's a good question. I I don't know. You're always open to new ideas as it comes along. I think being now you know six years into the business, I have a pretty good idea of what we would be looking for in the the the kind of decision matrix on in-housing it versus going somewhere else. There's certain product lines that you know we will never be able to produce here and and it may be a good fit for Partner Pet. So there's I I think it could go either way. I do believe that our core product, the one we started with, our chips, you know, we're gonna continue to manufacture those and get a little bit better as as we just discussed.

Speaker: 16:05
From a sourcing standpoint, especially you just touch on, you know, you're fairly selective in terms of the inputs. Single ingredient products are awesome. From a simplicity standpoint, I imagine it also has some level of concentrated risk. I think totally could be offered. I think like example like bird flu, I think in a ran through chicken and turkey supply last year. Like how much how much of an impact did that have as an example?

Speaker 1: 16:25
Yeah, that's a great point. Uh big impact, right? We have you know, when you're when your chicken price goes up 50% and we don't change our price to our customer, that's just margin loss, right? So it's the same, same stuff that you're getting in. Additionally, we had some delays on on getting product, just you know, with with uh with the situation that we had, and you know, the dynamics change. And so you're right, I think it's a it's a big risk. Right now, beef is is been in that situation for a long time. Beef prices are very, very high. Uh, and beef is an extremely popular product for for us. When dogs have our beef chips, they they literally go w wild. And and the customer wants the beef chips. Well, you you can't charge what the same difference between the chicken cost and the beef, you can't mark up your bag by that much. It just would be unreasonable. So, you know, we have we we said, hey, we'll we'll have a lot less margin on our beef product, we'll keep doing it. And and hopefully the marketplace, you know, maybe years, right, gets settled at some point where we're where they're they're closer, more on par. But uh yeah, there is a concentrated risk when you have a simple operation, but it's on the manufacturing side, you know, we're the only manufacturer, right? We don't have a backup, you know, this facility. You know, on the sourcing side, that's that's a risk as well. You know, just with the the marketplace that we're dealing with, you know, being an e-commerce company, as you know, you know, you carry those risks. You know, if there's uh not that many players are gonna you know ship your product, right? So those prices go up, you eat it, right? You eat it, you charge customers. There's not a whole lot of wiggle room and negotiation and and and things that you can do on that piece of it. So I think to handle those risks, you know, we have tried to to to expand our product line a little bit, you know, have different protein sources, you know, our supply base is is much more diversified and turn me our customer base is more diversified than it's ever been and will continue to become more diversified. So with with the growth, I think it becomes less of a risk. You you start to be able to have different ways to address it. But uh but yeah, when you're when you're when you deal with another bird flu, knock on wood, or or something of that nature, um, you've you've got to make those choices. Do you do you charge customer or do you hold your price and and and can you bear that? And for how long? Do you use for contracts? Yeah, there's some seasonality, obviously, like turkey. You know, you can go and and say, hey, we want a a truckload of turkey ahead of the season that's coming up here shortly. And so there's little things you can do, you know, but we're we're still small. We're not moving the needle in terms of uh how much we're buying, especially compared to like a a food company, right? Like those those folks are buying insane amounts of of product for us, it is smaller. And you know, but as you grow, you you know, we we really focus more on the partnership side of it. So we have partnerships with our with our supplier, suppliers. We know you know where they're at, what they're looking for, you know, terms, all those things. So we're working in conjunction with them. We get daily deliveries. So so I I view it more that way um than than maybe trying to get to cutesy in terms of uh you know buying from other people or you know, or or the forward buys or anything of that nature. You get what in a new facility we're gonna expand our capacity to actually hold more here. So so that will be that would be helpful. So we'll be able to get bigger deliveries. But uh great question.

Speaker: 19:26
I know Amazon is is a is a huge part of the business. How much of your Amazon volume is subscribe and save?

Speaker 1: 19:32
It's a decent part of it. You know, it's it's it's uh over 30% is subscribe and save. And in the hard part is on the Amazon side, you're not seeing you know how many new customers you got, the metrics. So there's it's a little bit of a balled uh world that you live with with Amazon. But our goal is really to make it better, you know, for the customers. And so when they subscribe and save, there's a lot of advantages there. You obviously save money. You can buy our larger bags, uh, which is by far the most popular now. And and uh you get them just dropped off at your door, very fast delivery, faster delivery than we could ever you know have here at an arm facility.

Speaker: 20:07
Totally.

Speaker 1: 20:16
Yeah, I mean you have to have a product that that gets good ratings, I think. You start you have to start there. So that that you know, we we have, but it's it's really about what you put into it. It's about ads. I mean, there's other things you can do and tweak, you know, uh we've tried different images that there are front images with the the chips and without. You know, we're always doing experiments on the names changes because they got the big long Amazon names and see what works there. We do get some organic sales that way, but uh by and large, it's it's your keyword bids. It's a it's a platform that you pay to bid on on keywords and you either win or you lose those. And when you win, you have more sales and you lose, uh, you know, you're you're left behind. And so it's it's a very competitive marketplace. Uh the cost per click from when we started to right now is is risen significantly. So the cost to you know to be on the platform, in addition to just you know the increased costs on the logistics and and the warehousing and everything else that they do on the FDA has been uh been been been tough, right? So you've got to make sure you have had the margin baked in. Quite frankly, I don't know how some some things that are sold on Amazon make any money, right? Because it's it's it's uh it's a very competitive marketplace, and uh you know you're big in that category against all your competitors every day to get to get eyeballs. You most of in most of those ways that people find us are not you know search or anything like that. They're just they're seeing a sponsored listing.

Speaker: 21:34
Yeah, totally. Under the radar, biggest opportunities in the channel to to grow a brand right now. Um in Amazon specifically, we have a we have the creator program that does great for us.

Speaker 1: 21:43
So we have folks that will try our product, we'll send them samples, they do little the little reviews on there, and so that really does help get the word out. I think uh you know, we're able to to to figure out some different combinations that sell well. Some sell well, some don't, you know, of our products to combine a couple of them, so that helped reduce. cost and as well as you know finding that right fit for what a customer is willing to spend on whether it's first order or second order. And I think just the just seeing the patterns, right? Just being involved and seeing, you know, when you put more ad spend in, what does that mean? You know, when you put less in, what does that mean? When you change something, what does it mean when you go out of stock or go on stock, how how damaging is that? So learning all these things, it it's a really long game. So I I know that you know TikTok shop and some other places you can have an overnight success. I don't know about Amazon. You have to have a lot of money or a lot of patience. And so I I think I think it's just a public combination of both.

Speaker: 22:36
Yeah, totally. I'm not an Amazon expert from what I've heard, making sure you get your listing set up correctly the first time is super important as it can be pretty challenging to go back and fix issues later. Assuming I'm I'm on the right track there, from what you've learned so far, what's the key to to the key things a brand should really watch out for as they're setting up their listings that could trip them up later down the line.

Speaker 1: 22:58
Yeah. I mean that's a great point. We we do all the in-house marketing for Facebook, you know, Google, all these other channels we've we've had external parties we we felt better that it was better served in our hands. For Amazon, I do have a partner there that helps with those exact same things listings, you know, all the support questions because sometimes we'll have product that that just goes unsellable in Amazon. So what do you do right? Why you gotta open a ticket you got to investigate you got to call you got to figure out what's going on you got to fix a a listing tweak something you know uh maybe the label wasn't right at the warehouse. There's all sorts of things that can happen and we've seen a ton of them happen that it will basically you'll you lose product or you'll you'll not be sellable and and that really hurts. And so you know we have help there just to make sure that we're always looking for those things. You know when we set up a new product do we do we do everything right but primarily just to make sure it's almost an insurance platform that that we're that we're going to follow all the changing rules and guidelines that they have so we can stay in compliance uh that we can make sure that we're getting all the back end right like you said for SEO for ads that we'll do the right experiments testing etc so that that we can be optimized on the Amazon platform. So I would say that uh you know uh while the ads even in the kid the bidding is is relatively straightforward uh you know there's a lot it's a very big platform there's a lot of different nooks and crannies you can go down and a lot of different ways that um you know you can lead a loose sales or or have a lot of losses in terms of lost product and and uh you know unsellable stuff expired etc. Yeah totally what have you found it has the biggest impact on on LTB yeah uh subscriptions are huge right that that's the the the number one thing but you know it's really learning what customers are are best suited for a subscription you know is it a new customer to your site is it someone who's bought repeat things is it someone who only likes to buy sales or or some of the seasonal stuff you know like our Halloween that's coming out and and so subscriptions are not great for everyone but there's a core audience that can really drive you know the revenue and and give you that kind of consistency you know and it's really helpful for us right on the production side too when you have the consistent production you have consistent sales you know we can get in the rhythm you know we can buy the right things staff the right way and you know so that that one I would say is is tightly related to the LTD. Something else that's interesting that happens when you're a small brand and you're and you're growing is if you focused on LTE and subscriptions and and optimize too much for that, you know, are you still getting new customers coming in? Because the first time customers only 5% of those folks want to go subscribe and save and stay. There's some more people that get it for the first first order and then they drop off. So our key and really we've kind of honed in the team on this and this is going to be a big continued emphasis for for the remainder of this year and next year is how do we get the second order? What are we doing everything that we can make sure to get that second order um because when we get the second order the third comes the fourth comes you know so the first order people talk about the cost acquisition that's that's huge right how much are you paying for that first order and so I was probably too laser focused on that in many ways and then you get that customer but but how do you how do you make sure they understand the value of your treats that they they have issues you know whether it's a shipping issue product issue whatever it might be that you're resolving those and then to make sure that they can you know they can afford it right so so you know that they want to be able to buy something consistently for their for the dogs and and not spit a fortune. So we have tools for them to be able to do that. We have the support for them but you know sometimes we don't connect all those dots with those customers and so we we got to do a better job of continuously you know reaching out monitoring being there to support them and and I think we can get that first to second order conversion much higher which that to me is the roadmap to the LTV right because they're much more likely to subscribe. And even if they don't subscribe they're they're still coming back and they're buying seasonal stuff they're they're still you know um buying that way. So um I think there's a lot of growth for us on the LTD side and I think there's a lot of better experiences for our customers available as well. We just have to continuously kind of look at our data, look at our customers, talk to our customers and and figure out a way to to optimize that.

Speaker: 27:03
Yep, totally uh from on the retail side of things, I think you're in over a thousand independents at this point. Those first few and like getting out to a thousand or so what's uh it sounds like a lot of these retailers came and found you rather than doing a lot of outbound how how did you get on their radar was just matter of them seeing you on Amazon and D D C or whatnot or what's how did you get how did you get on the radar?

Speaker 1: 27:21
Yeah well I think there was a lot of people that found us you know on Amazon or D to C and and you know someone went into a store and said hey do you have farm to pet you know they reach out to us and we make that relationship. So that that's a wonderful cycle for us because we're we're getting people who want to carry our store you know it's it's not outbound and and and trying to say hey we're we're being aggressive. We do outbound but um that the best way is to have the referrals coming that way. And and when we started again being production constrained you can only make so much and so I knew that we've got to be really careful to protect the Amazon business and we've got to protect our DVC business. And when we add on new wholesalers those volumes are larger you know we we don't want to go crazy because we get we make sure we have to fill it right um that's the best way to lose a retail customer if they're if if it's not on the shelf and no one can buy it. And and so that's been a balance we've been trying to play all along in in our new facility now we'll be able to increase our wholesale we've seen a massive increase in our wholesale customer list this year which which is great because we have started finally doing a little bit more more outbound in and sending samples and in reaching out to different independent stores. The the you know we got to now be able to keep up and and produce there but you know really started out with word of mouth and and just kind of a few stores here and there and it was okay for it to grow slowly. We needed to grow slowly as we fit in learning the retail world I had no idea of you know on on the retail side of of merchandising and and how you know really what was important to those store owners those independent stores versus maybe a D D C side so I I spent a lot of time on the D D C side trying to learn that and and the whole wholesale was a little bit far behind for us. But you know what someone called and said hey we want to carry in our groomer or our store we said absolutely and and we started a relationship and then you start to learn that learning cycle starts that way.

Speaker: 29:12
Yeah totally what does the the the retail channel like look like for you I don't know five years from now?

Speaker 1: 29:17
I mean I think it's gonna go along with our production capacity and and if we keep able to continue to to scale on the production side you know I can see our retail ramp up at a faster pace. You know we knew we know that we do really well in in the retails that we're in. They tell us we see the reports and so if we can get in a store we got a great opportunity to remain in that store. And and and so I think taking the time to get into the right stores we're we're going direct. You know we we don't use distributors third parties to go you know carry and represent our product we felt that it was better you know obviously from a margin perspective but but even to do fun things uh you know again our Halloween our our Christmas are are huge sellers they're great opportunities for impulse buys you know Halloween is right here actually this box good time to show that you know so we can do things like this and do it to retailers and they can have these little snack packs and you know they can sell those and give them out of the counter and that's unique. And so we're doing things that that a lot of other brands aren't doing it's a lot of fun too and so we pick up a a large number of retailers that are interested in in those types of things. And I think that's a great way for us to grow because we're providing something unique to them that they can get you know people to come to the store come in and and have something differentiated. You know they have the costing parties they have all these things and so we we support our customers our retail customers we send them free stuff we you know we make sure that that they can go represent our brand and and we can also work with them on their needs to make sure that these events are are successful. So I see more of that to be honest I I as we grow to kind of keep those relationships, build upon those, learn upon those, maybe you know come up with some other merchandising in store to make it easier and and just have it be a bigger focus. But I do think there's a tremendous amount of growth for us in the in the small regional chains and uh you know the in independent stores that we're at, you know, groomers, doggy daycares we're in coffee shops we're we're in a lot of places where people take their dogs not just just the typical store environment. So I think there's a there's a ton of expansion there. So that's really what our focus will continue to be.

Speaker: 31:16
In terms of fundraising you've been basically bootstrapped up until you know recently decided to eventually go down the fundraising route ultimately decided on the crowdfunding route. Yeah walk me through a bit about kind of the thought process how you landed on crowdfunding versus other paths and then just how it's been going so far.

Speaker 1: 31:33
Yeah you know really uh I've tied so much to the production capacity but this is another one that's tied there. So you know last year when we're when we couldn't sell anymore because we didn't make any more you know that was that was tough right you're you're in holiday and and you you know what your limits are. And so at that time I made decision well we got to go find a new place, a much larger place, not just incrementally larger and much larger for us. It has all the things that we need from the electrical capacity you know you know you know has all the plumbing has all the layout everything that we would need to be able to continue to grow. And that's expensive. So so I I knew that that would be difficult. It was an unknown right how much is it going to cost what's the build out going to be you know what equipment's going to stay go. And and I was looking for ways to finance kind of an unknown thing at the time and and talk to a ton of different people to give get feedback and and landed on the crowdfunding for a couple reasons because it's um you know we have a great community you know first of all so most of most of our investors are customers or people that are in the network. And so that was a way that we can actually give back. So if you're an investor for example you invest as little much as $300 you can get a $25 gift card and a lifetime discount code. So so it's actually a value to some some of our customer base in from that that perspective. So we thought that was a unique way to tie in to what we're doing reward some of the customers who want to want to invest. And you know I think it was also we feel really good about our team you know the people we have on the team got uh you know tremendous amount of brain power and enthusiasm for everything that we do from the marketing side to you know production side. So rather than saying hey we need help on XYZ of the business and and get aboard and bring in new people I felt very comfortable with this next phase of growth that that we could execute with the team that we have. And so we didn't necessarily need another another voice in the room from that perspective from a leadership voice at least love to get different opinions but but not from someone you know sitting right next to us to help us guide that. So so we feel really good about our team and and I think that was important the part of a decision to do the crowdfunding and then even thought about not doing it. You know once we moved in and said do we still want to do this? Do we still need to? And I think it was just something new for us to try. It was a way to for me to uh meet you on podcasts right so I probably wouldn't be here if I wasn't doing that. So I think it was really kind of hey saying you know Far daz is going to take a little bit more of a public public uh facing and myself included right role and talk more openly about what we do, you know, what we do well, what we don't and uh and and you know that fits in well with the crowdfunding narrative because uh people can see and understand you know about us and obviously we have to go through all the financial reviews and and all all the things that you have to do to get registered for for crowdfunding and uh and you know make those decisions themselves.

Speaker: 34:17
Yeah that makes sense that that totally makes sense that totally tracks too. Well yeah Jackson this has been awesome uh some of the great insights here uh for people that are looking to follow along with all your expertise and everything you're working on what's the best place to follow along with you and then where's the best place for people to follow along with the farm to pet brand as well yeah I I think it depends on on where you're coming from.

Speaker 1: 34:36
I mean the best place to buy farm to pet treats is to go to Google and say farm2pet find our front stores farm to petreats.com you know uh try out some of our treats that's that's the best place to start there. From there we also have you know information on the crowdfunding you can actually type that in Google and get there as well it's on Start Engine right now. In addition we've we've taken a more active role on LinkedIn so you you can you can contact me on LinkedIn I'll respond if you need to get in touch with me there and then the Farm to Pet account there. But on the fun side you know uh follow us on Instagram you know we have we do a great job showing off right now it's it's it's bumper with all the dog costumes and stuff we're we're getting excited very very early for Halloween and we'll do the same thing about the holidays and Thanksgiving and Christmas and all the fun things with the fall. So lots of ways to find us um any any uh questions at all about us the fundraising you know you can reach me I'm easy to reach and uh we'd love to answer.

Speaker: 35:29
Perfect. Awesome Jackson I appreciate the time I think uh I think that's the pod

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