Building Powder-Stick Efficiency in an RTD Can | Jordan Wilson, Sap's

Speaker 1: 00:00
Welcome to Shelf Help. Today we're speaking with Jordan Wilson, co-founder and CEO of SAP's Better For You Hydration and a Covery Brand with a goal to deliver powder stick efficiency in an RTD can, which I'm excited to dive into. Prior to SAP, Jordan was the COO of BioLight, head of ops product development and sourcing for Onward Reserve, a menswear brand. So definitely a lot of great experience in the CPG space and let's just say physical product space. Excited to get into it. First off, just for the listeners, Jordan, that aren't that familiar with SAP, give us quickly a land in terms of origin story, why behind the brand, core products, flavors you guys offer, and then maybe just a few places people can get their hands in them and then we'll go from there.

Speaker: 00:42
Yeah, awesome. Adam, thanks for having me. My backgrounds, you know, you you listed it earlier. I've been a part of scaling multiple consumer brands. I've always been on the ops side, you know, never really on the sales or marketing side. Um, really, in the last company that I was a part of, learned the hydration segment, learned um kind of what customers were looking for, what was working, what wasn't. And felt like I gained a really good understanding of that segment over the course of three years. A lot of independent understanding of the science behind hydration. And by the time I left that, felt like I had a pretty good grasp of where the puck was going in hydration. Wanted to create a brand that was not necessarily catered towards the elite athletes of the world and not necessarily super medicinal, like the pediolites of the world, but something that really spoke to active individuals that are just trying to live a healthier life. And then beyond the brand, kind of the science of it was recognizing that the average person is just really lacking in a lot of minerals and understanding that they need a better, healthier option for you that they could consume on a consistent basis because you really will feel the difference. And so my theory was let's if we can create a more natural Gatorade that doesn't have all the sugar and junk with some added functional benefits, people will, you know, really get behind this. And so um that was kind of the vision behind the brand. Launched, we launched in March of 2023. Um, we've been at it for a couple years, you know, based here out of Austin, Texas. Um, we're now in about 400 retailers across um three or four states: Texas, Colorado, Oregon, and then a little bit in the southeast. If you live in those states, you can find us in independent markets, coffee shops, some grocery chains like HEB, Central Market, a market of choice, some sea stores like plaid pantry up in Oregon, Leavers in Colorado. So really starting to gain a lot of traction those independent markets and you know, hopefully soon continue to break into more chains. We're also available on Amazon and at our website at sapsoriginal.com.

Speaker 1: 02:59
Awesome. Love that. Plaid pantry is a thoroughback. I went to school up in Portland and I would definitely hit up some plaid pantries in my day.

Speaker: 03:06
Yeah, we we love them. I feel like it's the perfect test for a young brand to see like, can you work in a store like that? And if you can, I think you can work just about anywhere, but for sure. It's been a really fun account to work with. That's awesome.

Speaker 1: 03:20
Well, yeah, let's let's uh rewind back to those early days, initial RD formulation stage. In terms of your goal, that powder stick efficiency in an RTD can. What did or does that look like in your mind actually from a formulation standpoint?

Speaker: 03:37
Yeah, so I think that the the thing that really stuck out to me about RTD hydration and why I think the last company I was at worked so well is that it actually worked. So many of the drinks in the space in in the RTD format are pretty bad. And powder, you know, you've had the rise of liquid IV element. Now there's like a ton of different powder brands. Generally speaking, those have been a lot cleaner, better formulations, better electrolyte ratios. I really felt like the science and the ingenuity happening over there wasn't existing kind of in the RTD space. And it just seemed like a huge kind of miss. Like I think powder has its place, but at many times, like a ready-to-drink product is you know even more convenient, especially if you can grab it and go. Totally. And so that was you know a lot of the inspiration for what we did. I spent years really like understanding the science behind, you know, hydration, how it worked. Like, even going back to the early days of when Gatorade was first created, like it was actually a really good product. It was super clean, it worked. They just turned it into this mass marketing machine that has, you know, four times the amount of sugar that the original formulation has. And bringing kind of the sports drink in a way back to its roots based on effectiveness, but then incorporating all these like really new, cool nootropics and functional ingredients to create an added benefit that we were looking for was the goal.

Speaker 1: 05:04
Yeah, I remember Gatorade way back in the early days. I think they actually had a canned version, and probably the formulation wasn't four times as much figure, too.

Speaker: 05:12
Yeah, canned Gatorade is it hits different. So that was definitely a huge inspiration for us. Yeah, that makes sense.

Speaker 1: 05:18
But yeah, I think I think I read you spent like 18 months in bench top RD tweaking, iterating until you found formulation and process that you felt like worked and passed muster without giving in a way any like you know trade secrets. I'm just kind of curious what were some of those key variables that you were playing around with and tweaks you made between that first version and that last version where you felt like this is ready to go to market?

Speaker: 05:43
Yeah, so we started working on it in January of 2022. We went through probably 40 to 50 iterations, if I had to guess, over the course of about nine months. I think it it started from a place of me wanting uh like I had a laundry list of ingredients that I was like, okay, all of these things are awesome. I think people could use more of these in their daily lives. And the functional benefits of those ingredients tie into why people buy hydration drinks. So, you know, some people buy them for athletic recovery or performance, some people buy for hangovers, some people buy for just general kind of daily wellness and hydration. And so I wanted to include it without getting too complicated, like a simple but yet effective thing that could speak to all those different use cases. Yep. And so over time, we kind of started whittling down from that laundry list of ingredients to here's the you know, 20 different functional ingredients we want to roll with. Um, knowing that we really needed a carrier or like a base foundation to kind of always come back to. And that for us was coconut powder. So coconut, you know, incredible at hydrating, great for natural sugar source, great for potassium, but coconut's really lacking in some other things like salt. And so we basically added back to that to achieve the ratios that we're looking for.

Speaker 1: 07:13
Did the the can packaging form factor versus the typical plastic bottle from an RTD perspective impact formulation, like I don't know, metallic taste issues you had to work around that you don't have to work around, you know, with plastic if at all, or maybe it didn't have any impact.

Speaker: 07:29
Yeah, definitely. I mean, it had a lot of impact on my my sleep the first year of business. You know, like my worst nightmare was always getting a call in the middle of the night, hearing like all our cans exploded and all that. Because our our formulator initially told us they're like, you can't do this in a can, it's not gonna work. And I was like, no, we're gonna figure this out. Um, we're gonna we're gonna get this done. And so we went through, I hired some ex um can engineers that had been at Coke for like 40 years. They were consultants to come in and help with the project. Um we ran, you know, all the like ball tests that you needed to do to confirm things. And so we kind of figured out a sweet spot with like these levels of chloride levels with these ingredients can kind of get you to that that level you need to have so you don't create corrosion in the can. So it definitely made it more challenging, but I think it's given us a little bit of a moat and it's helped us kind of achieve the the unique brand that we we wanted to create. Yeah, that's great.

Speaker 1: 08:33
And man, I think at the beginning of this year, I think, isn't am I right that you launched a more a newer updated formulation that resulted in like a 80-90% uh trial to repeat a lift? Assuming I read that correctly, like that's huge. I'm kind of curious, what were those key changes you made and what was the hardest part if you had to make that drastic of changes?

Speaker: 08:56
Yeah, no, it was it was a big overhaul. We had you know, we'd been in the business for a year and a half at that point, and it was like it was just getting too hard on us. We were like, we know the liquid's gotta change, like this isn't working, we need to pivot. And I wish we had pivoted faster, but it it just takes a while to do a formula overhaul. The biggest two things we were hearing from customers was the liquid's a little too thick, it needs to you know be easier to chug. And there's a little bit too much like earthiness happening, and I think that was the shiitake mushroom that was driving that. And so we set out over the course of about six months saying, how do we keep the same kind of effectiveness that we're looking for in this formula while making it more mass market appealed? And so we're able to trim some ingredients down, replace some different acids. And I tell you what, like the since January and coming out with the new liquid, it's been crazy to see like just the amount of even same source of growth happening, like the amount of people that have really resonated with the new liquid. And it's definitely not perfect. We got a lot of work to do on that front. We're kind of always improving. But as far as like big overhaul um and improvement, like we definitely made that happen.

Speaker 1: 10:14
That's awesome. That's great. Man, I'm sure that was not an easy process, but that's awesome. Thinking back to those early days and building at least that that V1 of the brand identity, the packaging design. Uh, I'm not sure if you've read Ramping Your Brand, which seems to be a pretty interesting book in CPG at this point, but uh I think he talks about how you know premium pricing really comes from one crystal clear promise and not feature itis. As you were thinking about building out the visual identity, packaging design, what were some of those key variables that are top of mind for you? And yeah, what were the key things that were included in the brief?

Speaker: 10:49
Yeah, um that book's incredible. I mean, I I try to go back and read it at least like once a month, and there's just so many good learnings in it. But you know, for us, it was the goal of the drink at the end of the day was to always leave people feeling like it actually really did something for them and it it met them in that place of need, helped them feel better after they had it, and then presenting it in like a cool, interesting way. And I think the wave of um you know, like socializing through activity almost like you like the rise of run clubs, the rise of pickleball, like all of these things that we're now doing instead of going out with a at a bar or whatever, like um, it's kind of the perfect beverage for that because it doesn't stick out like a you know bulky plastic bottle. It fits right into that that social scene. And so for us, the one thing we always wanted to communicate was this product is effective for recovery. I think, you know, as far as like the presentation of that, we've tried to really highlight you know different benefits associated with the drink throughout the can. And we focused on the electrolyte content, the no-added sugar, the adaptogens on the side. But without doing it in like a super science-y way, has always been the goal. It needs to be feel kind of nostalgic, retro, cool. Uh, and I think the package is you know, uniquely does that right now. Totally.

Speaker 1: 12:14
Yep, I agree with that. You shifted from shrink sleeves to digitally printed can, which definitely seems to be the trend. Tell me a bit about that journey and kind of why behind you made that switch and yeah, any downsides you you found about making that switch.

Speaker: 12:28
You know, sleeves, sleeves have their benefit. I think operationally, it's a huge headache. You know, finding the right coatacker that can apply the sleeves. If they can't, then you're having them apply pre-shipment. It's just it just adds a layer of complexity that's kind of unnecessary. And so um really it was once we could find the right digital printer that we trusted that we felt good about working with, it just made sense to make that switch. It also has helped quite a bit with you know the recyclability of the product, which is really important to a lot of our customers. So definitely would recommend it to most. I think there's there's some downsides with digital where you know you get a little bit more chipping and the I guess the like product can get a little bit more damaged at time. But to us, it felt like kind of elevating the brand or taking it to the next step, moving from sleeves to digital. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 13:23
Has the from the the packaging design standpoint, has the core, I guess not just packaging design, but the brand identity in general, has the core messaging look and feel of the brand and packaging remained pretty consistent since launch, or have you been at there been any big changes or re-brands you've gone through?

Speaker: 13:40
I know it's only been a few years, but I was in general, the tweaks have been relatively small. We've kept the core theme of these these red, you know, very bright red cans, red orange. We've really tried to make the flavor call-outs more prominent and both the front and you know, adding a flavoring at the top. But the core has stayed the same, and it's really starting to pay dividends now that we're getting placements where you have lots of facings because it it just you walk in, you see it in a cooler or on a floor stand or whatever, like it really gets your attention. And that was the goal from the beginning was creating this kind of block of advertisement that you know really works at retail. We didn't want to disrupt that with having like each flavor is a different color can.

Speaker 1: 14:25
So yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Well, yeah, just thinking back to that, the whole brand development packaging design process for a founder that's just about to kick off this same process. What are any few things that just come top of mind or the tips you give them or things to watch out for that could potentially trip them up along the way?

Speaker: 14:45
It's a great question. You know, I think we should have done a better job of just having conversations with our end user about the packaging before we launched, as well as um, you know, retail buyers. Like it's funny, you go into a random gas station down the street, and it's like the guys that are making the buying decisions there are they're a wealth of knowledge. And because they see products come in and out, you know, every day. And you really can learn a ton just from getting some advice from them. And I wish we had done a little bit more of that, you know, from the beginning. So yeah. Yeah, that's super helpful.

Speaker 1: 15:25
Shifting gears a little bit, talking about distribution. Pretty sure you've just mostly focused on smaller regional distributors for now. I'm curious, like, what have you found working with those smaller regional ones? Are the big differences between the smaller players and you know, some of the big guys, whether it's K, Kage, Unify, in terms of how do you work with them, how they work, workflow, you know, expected deductions and margin impact and all that kind of stuff?

Speaker: 15:49
Yeah, it's there's definitely not one right answer. It's just been kind of our preferred way of working. Pros and cons on both sides. I think the smaller regional distributors, there's so much more of a relational component that's there. And particularly when you can show them that you're doing the hard stuff, you can show that kind of very consistent month-over month growth. It's a lot easier to get them excited about things and you can go out and work the market with them, do ride-alongs. Like it's it's just an easier way to, I think, win over such a key part of the sales channel for you. And so it's been, you know, kind of an ideal scenario for us as a small brand. I'm sure there will be a point in time where we need to work with the broadliners, but seeing as you know, much most of our regional guys are beer houses and they've just been getting killed the last couple of years. And so being kind of this alcohol alternative that can help them grow their portfolio and maybe supplement some of the losses from the alcohol sales, it's been a really good match so far.

Speaker 1: 16:49
How can a brand truly partner with their distributor to really maximize success? What are one or two things that come top of mind?

Speaker: 16:58
I mean, it all starts with communication. That's the first thing. They've got to see that you're out in the market doing the hard stuff, merchandising, getting new placements, all those kinds of things. It can take a lot of time before you really do get that buy-in, but I think that's a quick way to earn trust. We have a program we've implemented with all of our distributors where basically we give them, you know, a certain amount of samples for the team to use on a monthly basis. Being that most of the time they're out outside, like sweating, working in the warehouse, like it's been a you know cool thing to see them actually like really gravitate to the product and get used to using it. And then lastly, we brought in a chief sales guy in October, a lot of distributor management experience. And I think having somebody in that seat that understands distribution to a much larger degree than I do, kind of be the point of contact has really helped those relationships blossom.

Speaker 1: 17:52
How have you found our ways to hold your distributor accountable to a certain extent? Or yeah, what kind of levers do you have to be able to hold them accountable?

Speaker: 18:03
Man, I wish Gus was here for that question. It's definitely a Gus question. Um, it starts with holding yourself accountable and doing what you say you're gonna do. So we go sell in uh you know flex based and HGB and tell the buyer, yeah, we're gonna be here to yeah, at 6 a.m. to help you set up this in cap and doing that, making sure it's stocks. Like once you hold yourself to that kind of standard, it's a lot easier to ask the distributor to do the same thing for you. Yeah. I think just viewing like distributors are not at this point people that you can rely on from the get-go to go be your outsource salespeople. Like it just takes time to win them over. And so viewing it in the same way that you would do business with anybody is how can I build this relationship and make their job easier? Yeah. One of the things that we implemented when Gus came on board was when we started doing these distributor kind of all hands meetings. We had an individual folder made for each employee that we handed them with you know their own talking points about the product, different things that maybe they would appreciate or enjoy, and making it kind of personal to them. So it's not just hey, XYZ distributor, like go do this for us. Like, no, we're we're a team, we're gonna work with you each individually. Here's your you know, point of contact that you need to reach out to if you have a question. If you want to do a ride-along, please let us know. Just making sure that we're there to support each individual that's part of that team.

Speaker 1: 19:38
Yeah. That was a great tip. Super helpful. From a retail standpoint, I think Arette, it sounds like you're working in in kind of a flex item authorization capacity with HEB at the moment. What's been your or what's your strategy look like as and kind of key tactics you're focusing on to really maximize velocity and you know get as many stores as possible to pick up the brand?

Speaker: 20:01
Yeah, I mean, of course, I'd love to be in every HEB tomorrow, right? Um, but just being realistic and knowing we got to focus on the ones that we know we can win initially and just really hone in on about 20 locations, do a really good job with those. We've kind of pinpointed the ones that we want to win at just based on existing retailers in the area. Um, going in on those with those stores at least once a week, touching base with the grocery manager, staying in touch with them about upcoming, you know, flex space that's available. And then, you know, we haven't gotten um corporate demo approval yet, is something we're working on. But the the kind of scrappy demos, like what we like to call them, we'll go in, you know, buy a bunch of cans, and then as people are checking out, leaving the store, just introduce ourselves, you know, hand out a free can to people. That's the kind of stuff like it's crazy to see. There's one H E B in particular. We've been doing that very consistently. And I ran into an employee of that store at an event last weekend. She immediately came up to me and just was singing our praises, couldn't stop talking about how excited, you know, she was to be working with us. And that's when it really starts to feel like we're doing that, we're in this together. We're doing this together. It's not just a transactional relationship of like we're here to support you know the local employees and what they're doing. And um, you know, again, it it's relationships at the end of the day that are gonna make the difference.

Speaker 1: 21:30
So those stores, those kind of informal demos that you're doing until you get that at the corporate level approval, and all stores are totally good with that. Like they have no problem with that. They're supportive of you doing that kind of informal approach for now.

Speaker: 21:41
Yeah, I mean, we haven't asked permission to do that, but right. No one told you not to. I think they're cool with it. You know, the employees think it's funny, and every now and then, you know, they jump in and grab a can and all that. So that's awesome. But I mean, it's just it's common sense, right? It's like if this person's in this store today, they're probably gonna this is probably their local great. Grocery store, they're gonna be back next week. And hopefully they like the product enough to then buy it the next time they're there. Yeah, totally.

Speaker 1: 22:08
What's like what does it take to is it just a matter of you know, biding your time and and Chi B corporate just needs to eventually slot you in from a time-in perspective, or is there other, I guess, variables that it takes to get approved at that official corporate demo level?

Speaker: 22:25
There's a lot of red tape as always with you know some of these organizations. It's it's just continuing to stay persistent and get that approval as far as kind of rolling out to the larger portfolio. I mean, we've we've shown some really great sales so far in the first 30 days, but you know, we've got a long way to go. And I think particularly with this flex space, you can lose it you know, real quick. If if those 20 stores that we're focused on, um, if we can get to a point where we're maintaining that space, we won't have to worry about getting constantly pulled off the shelf. Maybe it's moved to a different spot, then that means, okay, we've got these in a good spot. We're moving a lot of cases, we can start kind of expanding outside of those 20. But in other cities, I mean, we don't have a great distribution solution for Houston or for San Antonio. Um, and so we're kind of building, we're building it as we're going. It's like do really well here, start having conversations with the right distributor partners for those other cities, and um, hopefully we can you know get those things wrong pretty soon.

Speaker 1: 23:28
From what I know, I think that the Seastor channel has been a big channel for you guys. And um, it seemed like it's a big channel for a lot of brands, but it doesn't always feel like it's the channel that's always talked about quite as much. I'm just kind of curious from your perspective, what's unique about this channel compared to conventional retailing and then what's really key to winning in this channel.

Speaker: 23:48
Yeah, I mean C Stores, um, I think long-term for beverage, that's how you win. You have to be able to win in C-Store um kind of in mass markets, or you're you're really never gonna achieve kind of the large scale you need to. I think the the biggest things that have worked for us is first off um earning placement in the right place. So there's you know, a handful of sea stores around town. Um, and then also you know, Clad Pantry, we're like slotted right next to Gator Light. And that's to us is like that's the golden ticket. If we can land right there, um, we know we're gonna do well. Also make making sure that um, you know, you've got shell strips there, you've got your price clearly marked, just making sure it looks professional um can add a huge lift. We granted, we still have a lot of work to do on the C-Store front, and we're still I you know it just takes a level of kind of maturing and and getting bigger. But um, so far, those are the things, those are the things that we've seen that have worked really well. I think in particular, the pricing sweet spot in C Store is running like a two for five promo. If you're you know at 299, that's usually like a really good volume threshold for promos.

Speaker 1: 25:08
Are they is the distributor and network is that you know the same regional distributors that you're working with are in um conventional retail?

Speaker: 25:17
Generally, yeah. They're they're also handling those C stores for us. I mean, it it depends on which chain you're talking. Like I know 7-Eleven's got their preferred partners. The the really the big like mass market distributors that handle you know the thousands of C-store locations. We haven't been able to break into those. We hope to at some point one day. There's also like the buying groups, you know, down here in Austin, there's uh Gamma, which represents, I think, about 800 stores. Um you know, it costs money to get in with those folks. But our strategy has been let's go get into the ones that we can that we fit that fit that like area that we want to win in. Like, for instance, there's a 7-Eleven down in South Austin that carries the product. There's plenty of those gamma stores I mentioned. And if we can show traction and progress there, at some point we'll get the opportunity to kind of work with the larger buying group of the larger chain.

Speaker 1: 26:14
When we spoke a bit ago, I mean you also mentioned something about you guys are playing around with or working in what you call like an experiential channel, which I'm really not sure what that means. I'm I'm very curious. Like, what yeah, what can you tell me on this front?

Speaker: 26:27
Yeah, um, I mean, I think when you're building a consumer brand, it's not purely just about sales, at least, you know, when you're our size, like you have to also then play in the right places where like your consumer is going to be and kind of add depth and layer to the brand. And so we've identified in each market that we're in, like these are the hot spots we need to be in that represent kind of our core customer. So whether it's like a coffee shop that every like cyclist, you know, starts a ride or ends a ride out of, or if it's a golf course where we know like a lot of people that we want to get in front of play golf here, or you know, here in Austin, we've got a place called Butler Pitch and Putt. It's an incredible, it's I think they sell more beer than any bar in Austin. It's crazy the amount of people that come through there, but they're all tied back to kind of the activity that we're trying to promote as a brand, which is getting outside, socializing, being active, moving your body. And when people are introduced to your brand in that setting, it just is it has more of an effect of winning them over as a customer than it does necessarily them discovering you, you know, at their local grocery chain. So we uh we definitely prioritize those experiential accounts. You know, it's meeting that that person when they're in need, when they're sweating. And I would say that's kind of how we've built a lot of the grassroots momentum in the different markets that we're in. Yeah. That seems like that seems like a really smart strategy.

Speaker 1: 27:55
From a metrics standpoint, what does your, let's just call it your your daily dashboard look like? What's top of mind for you?

Speaker: 28:04
So I'm a huge proponent of a business book called Traction. It goes under the EOS system. And so we have that system implemented, you know, not to the T, but more or less. And they're they're really big on a weekly scorecard. And so we have the weekly meeting where we come together, everyone's accountable for certain numbers, and those things are being tracked on a weekly basis. So I'd say that's kind of more relevant to the daily. But for me personally, I mean, I'm checking, I'm checking, you know, sales that come in from the prior day, I'm checking inventory levels every day, I'm checking depletions, you know, at the store level. Um, those those things really fuel like your understanding of what's happening kind of in the day-to-day. Like, oh, hey, this store is popping off. What's going on over here? Was it this event that we did that's you know making this happen? But I think from a team structure and how we evaluate the business, those weekly things are critical so that we can come to that weekly meeting, scan through the list of you know, maybe eight numbers, and know generally like where we stand as a business.

Speaker 1: 29:10
Yeah. You just hired a pretty big time chief sales officer. Tell me about that hiring journey, how you found him or her, and and um, yeah, and then maybe what the team looks like today.

Speaker: 29:20
Yeah, um, man, I've made every probably bad hiring decision you can. So I've probably learned more what not to do. You know, we started, we started early with some people that we thought were really good fits. They had a lot of experience, came in, you know, knew a lot of stuff about the space, but culturally it wasn't a fit. And then we just weren't ready for that. Had to basically clean house. It was just me for a while. And slowly we've, you know, added a couple of people. Um we'd gotten to a point where I was like, I gotta get a salesperson I can really lean on to, you know, um fill the gaps and some of the voids that I don't I'm not able to fill. Gus was he was with another brand at the time. He I think he heard a podcast interview I did, reached out over LinkedIn, was like, hey, I'm really into what you're doing. Like, I want to meet and talk. Um, he came down here, we got together, we just really hit it off, and he kind of laid out like selling me on himself, hey, this is what I think I can do. Like, I'm really passionate about what you're trying to build. I want to, I want to jump on board and help. And at that point, I I couldn't really say no. And so it was just figuring out the right comp structure and making sure we were aligned on a lot of different things. And he's been he's been incredible for the business so far. And uh, I think mainly because of the the like cultural fit that he was and his willingness to you know get his hands dirty and do the hard stuff, but also because we really took time to kind of date and get to know each other and make sure we're really aligned on what we're trying to build.

Speaker 1: 30:58
So what's the the biggest learning lesson you have by hiring over the past few years?

Speaker: 31:05
Not all experience is equal. And just because somebody's done what you've you're wanting to do or wanting to achieve before doesn't mean they're they're the right fit. And generally your gut, like if you meet that person face to face and within 30 minutes, you're like, eh, I don't know. Like, don't try and justify it to make it work. It just means it's not a fit, no matter how good their resume looks. That's that's my biggest takeaway.

Speaker 1: 31:30
Last question, Jordan. Any any brands in the CBJ space or more broadly, just any trends that you're kind of following, things that that's got you excited at all?

Speaker: 31:40
Oh man, we're like in the golden age of CPG right now. It's it really it's fun to see, you know, all the different things that are happening. I I mean I play real really close attention to our space in general, just to kind of see how people are innovating and thinking about things. I've been really impressed with the growth of some brands in the like THC kind of wellness space.

Speaker 1: 32:03
Yeah.

Speaker: 32:05
I think what Breeze has done is incredible. Like it's mind-blowing to kind of and I love that they're very transparent about it. There's there's certainly other brands in that space I'm I'm paying attention to. The other one that comes to mind is um this whole movement around A2 dairy and like better for you, um better for you milk, and developed not a close relationship, but like we kind of know each other with the founder of Laurels. And so I love just watching what she's doing. She's having a ton of success, killing it. You know, it's you can always learn a thing or two from founders and other categories and try and kind of iterate some of the things that they're doing into your space. It's like every couple of years, there's this like category that if you're first to market, you do it well, you're gonna win. Yeah, totally. And you just you respect those people a lot because you know a lot of money is like moving towards that segment. Um, and if you can kind of rise out of out of that, you know, midst of all these other brands, it's it's really impressive. Yeah, totally.

Speaker 1: 33:07
Yeah, Jordan, this has been awesome. Uh, a lot of great insights here. Things would be super helpful for other up-and-coming founders and operators. What's the best place for people to follow along with you? And then what's the best place for people to follow along with saps as well?

Speaker: 33:21
Yeah, um, I'm trying to get more active on posting on LinkedIn, so probably there for my updates and stuff. For SAPs, I would say Instagram, SAPS original is the tag. Um, you know, if you want to support us, you can buy some on the website or Amazon or you know, find hopefully find a local retailer that we're at. Those would definitely be the main places.

Speaker 1: 33:42
Cool. Perfect. Yeah, Jordan, appreciate it. This has been great. Um, yeah, thank you.

Speaker: 33:48
Thanks for having me.

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