Scaling a National Demo Program | Kiera Kehoe, SMASH Kitchen

Speaker 1: 00:00
Welcome to Shelf Help. Today we're speaking with Kiara Kehoe, brand manager at Smash Kitchen, the organic condiments and cooking oils brand, co-founded by Dr. Glenn Powell, who seems to be everywhere these days. Kier spent a few years honing her brand management shops at brands like Zach's Almighty and a number of other ones, and also built a demo and merchandising agency along the way that cover, I think, 40-ish states or so. So lots of fun directions. We can kind of take this. Excited to dive in. I think as a former founder of a pre-sizable demo agency, definitely want to spend kind of a bulk of our time here. Just because I think, especially if brands are scaling, demos can have such a big impact. First question, what gap did you see that made you want to start lift off demos in the first place?

Speaker: 00:47
Yeah, so I didn't really see a gap because there's so many agencies out there. I think the biggest thing I saw was at my previous company, Zaxx Mighty, we built out a demo field team. So we had a lot of our, you know, people in-house as part of our team. And I saw the difference between, you know, having your own people versus having an agency and just, you know, when you're investing in them and and and all of that. But I know every brand doesn't have that, you know, ability. And so, you know, as Zaxx grew, we kind of winded down, you know, very much like other brands, you know, when we initially launched, demos are a big part of our strategy for a few years. And then, you know, um, the the goal, right, is to to grow and then pull back on some of those um spends. And so um I had this awesome team. And I also knew that there is a demand uh, you know, for for great demos at Zach's. We were actually, I was lucky we were working with uh some salsa brands because we were a tortilla chip company. And so I had some some awesome, you know, connections that uh we had worked with them, you know, we would say, hey, you know, if you guys kind of want to split the cost of demos, you know, our our BA's BA's brand ambassador can sample both. And so I was already in the cadence of working with other brands and and having our ambassadors, you know, work across multiple brands and you know, obviously would give them reports and everything. And we had one brand who actually was like, you guys have sold better than any other agency. And so it was a very like organic, you know, decision because we were winding down uh our you know program at Zach's, and I had some of these brands um who were saying, you know, are you what are you guys doing? Are you doing more? And so I started, you know, connecting them with our team. Then I was like, all right, I I have something here. And so, you know, liftoff was born and you know, started working with a few clients and you know, all natural channel whole foods, sprouts, and it was great. It, you know, it I I'm so passionate about demos. I love it. I love, you know, the people, I love having brands have that same, you know, experience that I did where you're like, okay, I I spent money and I move units, you know, like this is something that I'm I'm seeing, you know, impact from spend, you know, at the store level. And so, so yeah, that's how it all started.

Speaker 1: 03:04
Makes sense. What is a successful demo in your mind actually accomplished beyond just selling a few more units than usual that day versus when someone's not doing a demo? Like, I think there's a lot of other value that adds beyond that long term.

Speaker: 03:18
Totally. So there's so much that you can get from just someone going to the store doing a demo. You get shelf photos, you get amazing feedback. That's always the biggest thing. That's always, you know, if I'm onboarding someone or training someone new, I'm like feedback is so important, especially for small brands. And like we read every line, we read every detail. And so all of my team's reports are always like very much in depth. And it's it's amazing because you get, you know, direct quotes from shoppers at these stores. And so, yeah, I'd say, you know, shelf photos, feedback, you know, a great photo of the setup that you can bring to your next retailer meeting and say, hey, look how we're supporting you. This is how much, you know, we're investing in you, you know, this is what we're bringing to your stores. You know, all of those are, you know, really important.

Speaker 1: 04:04
What would you say is the biggest misconception people may have about the the world of demos?

Speaker: 04:11
I would say the biggest misconception is that, you know, it's hard to track return on investment because, you know, can always figure out a way to track store sales. And I would say, you know, a lot of times it is a big marketing expense. It's it's, you know, when you invest in demos, you you have to invest pretty heavily because you if you just sue a few, you're not really gonna move the needle unless it's like a you know, really, really small chain. And so you you do have to like wean in and invest. And so I think, you know, from what I just said, all those things that you get out of it. And I one something I forgot was also the relationship that brand ambassadors are able to build with stores and store managers. Um, you know, it's it's a very worthwhile investment. I think it's it's hard to stomach because uh you know, it's it's a lot and and you have to do it and do it right, but I think it's a it's very worthwhile.

Speaker 1: 05:10
What would you say is I guess demo strategy mistake first time founders make it?

Speaker: 05:16
I think um none of the the you know uh brands that I worked with really did this, but I know a lot of brands I was speaking from with ambassadors, I know kind of how what they've been, you know, what they've dealt with with other brands. And sometimes brands will say, you know, I only want demos on this day, um, you know, at this time, it has to be a weekend, it has to be at this time. I always say, you know, let the ambassador tell you. They are in these stores all the time, for the most part, unless, you know, they're they're new to the world and you're training them, that's kind of different. But a lot of, you know, the people that I've hired, they've they've done this for a while and they have such good insight. I always say, listen to the ambassadors, they'll tell you. And that they'll even, and I think other times, you know, you'll give a store list to an agency, right? Like, you know, these are the stores I want to hit, only these ones. And you'll have ambassadors say, Hey, I'll go to this, but it's dead. Yeah, or you know, like I'd much rather go to this one or the clientele at this one never buys. Like, let's go to this one. So I'd say, you know, lean on them as much as you can because they have so much insight. They're the ones there and they can teach you a lot. And I think a lot of times, like they don't even get asked, like, you know, I'm like, you tell me. Yeah, you know, I'm like, you tell me what's going on, you tell me, you know, and and they they have so much insight. So it's it's worth talking to them and having them guide your strategy a little bit.

Speaker 1: 06:48
In terms of um kind of like when demos make sense and versus maybe when they they don't make sense from your kind of experience, what stage should a brand start doing demos? Like when is it too early? I guess is maybe another way to put it.

Speaker: 07:06
Yeah, I think you know, it should be a part of your initial strategy, the first one to two years of launching. I think too early. I I always think, you know, you need to let a product get to shelf, you need to make sure it's on shelf, you need to, you know, give it a second to breathe, get kind of your initial, you know, one to two to three months of data, what stores are doing well, you know, where are we doing well, figure out kind of, you know, your understand your product a little bit, and then start investing in demos and whether you, you know, want to pump a region or you're you know pleasantly surprised the region is doing well and you want to, you know, support it even more and see how how much more it can do. I think, you know, within the first three to four months, I think it's good to have a demo strategy in place. Um, because again, you right off the bat, you're getting learnings, you're getting boots on the ground, you're getting pictures of you know your product in stores, you have, you know, brand ambassadors. It's not always the best text in the world, but they're like, hey, this store hasn't ordered in two weeks, or hey, you know, you know, we're we're on the bottom shelf here, but it's it's insights that you can take action on pretty quickly.

Speaker 1: 08:16
Yeah, totally. There are uh I'm not sure how many brands you worked with at a liftoff, but are there any categories that you found where demos are be like almost mandatory versus not?

Speaker: 08:27
Yeah, it's it's such an interesting question. One interesting thing is that most ambassadors that I've worked with over the years all um at some point have done liquor. So it seems like that category, I've never worked with a liquor brand or on a liquor brand, but it seems like that category is a must. So I'm like, if that is ever in my future, I feel like it's it, I, it's just crazy. Every resume I get, uh, you know, it's a liquor brand. So I'd say that category for sure, it seems like. When it comes to demoing, you know, I think it's difficult when you have an item that is really low price. So, you know, a a granola bar or a drink, you know, it's it's nearly impossible to ever see a return on that.

unknown: 09:10
Yeah.

Speaker: 09:10
And so that's hard. You know, if it if it's a higher priced item, you know, you can see a, you know, you can generate a return uh per demo. But I think the the categories that do best, it's kind of, you know, reverse of that are kind of the impulse items that aren't that expensive that, you know, people try and and you're like, hey, it's only, you know, it's only $4.99 and and you know, they don't really have to think too hard about it. Um, whereas, you know, some of the the higher price stuff, it it's a it's a little bit harder, but then again, you don't have to sell as much to to make up for it. So, you know, I think ambassadors definitely enjoy more of the the impulse buy type brands, you know, a a snack, a beverage.

Speaker 1: 09:55
How do you yeah, how do you think about or how did you, I'm not sure if you worked with any brands that shelf table is the wrong word, but products that that were in the frozen aisle as an example, or things that needed to be, you know, heated up. Uh I feel like that's probably significantly more challenging. Did you work with any brands that are in those categories?

Speaker: 10:13
Yeah, I worked with one brand. Um, they wanted to do uh tater tots, and there was hesitation at first with the brand ambassador team. They were like, this is gonna affect, you know, where we're gonna be put up in the stores and if there's on an outlet. And I was like, let's let's try it. And it went really well. We sent everyone an air fryer, and uh they were like, oh, people actually want to come to the table, they kind of smell it, they you know, the the outlet situation was good. Um, and so that's the only cooking, you know, demo that I've done. But you know, I think I think it's it's always tough when you have to like ask more of the ambassadors, and I know you know it's throws them off a little bit, but that one went well. But I've never done, you know, I know some of my other my team has done demos for like rice brands and stuff, some of like the package rice, and so they have like slow cookers and and they're you know, they do it, you know, they they they'll go to the back room and heat stuff up and bring it out, and they have a heater on the table. So you know, they make it work. And kids like it too, you know. So if you get a kid over to the table and and they like it, then the parent kind of has to buy it. So it does work.

Speaker 1: 11:24
Especially in like the early stages of a brand, how should how do you recommend to like a founder? How do they think about their their marketing budget when it comes to allocating budget to demos in the early days versus other things?

Speaker: 11:35
Yeah, so I I always say, and I don't know if this is right by any means, but I always say you kind of have two marketing buckets, and and one of them has to be getting people to like your product, and one of them has to be getting people to like your brand. And so I look at, you know, the the meta and social and and content creation and you know, experiential and out-of-home stuff as as that, you know, getting people to to buy into your brand and get to know you, and then you know, getting people to buy your product is kind of where demos would fall. So in terms of that, I would rank demos second. I would say first bucket should be um online sponsored search, like Instacart, you know, Walmart Connect, all those, because that's gonna be, you know, you know, you get great returns. It's you have to be on there, you have to be visible. And then I would say demo secondary. That's that's how I, you know, have built that getting people to buy your you know, your shopper marketing budget, you call it.

Speaker 1: 12:40
Yeah, makes sense.

Speaker: 12:42
But yeah, I just I I always struggle ranking, you know, that with you know the brand marketing, because they're they're so different.

Speaker 1: 12:51
Yeah, for sure. As a brand starts to scale into more doors, but they're still in those earlier stages where budgets are still beat up pretty tight. How do you choose in terms of directing the brand ambassadors which stores to to prioritize or demo at first? Maybe it's just as simple as you know, store sales like this one sells the most units, so maybe it can boost the most, or maybe it's the ones that are the slowest moving. Yeah, how do you kind of think about prioritizing?

Speaker: 13:18
Yeah, I think if you're working on a, you know, uh a small budget, you go to the stores that are the best for you because you know you know you're gonna move even more product. The reps probably know those stores and like those stores. And you also know that they probably have inventory for you. So I would start there because I think there's always more you can pump out of good stores.

Speaker 1: 13:42
What does a successful demo look like to you? Not like numbers-wise.

Speaker: 13:47
Yeah, so setups are so important, and that's something it's it's fun, like it's funny, it's uh different, you know, for every ambassador. It's something that we drill so hard in training, and we're like, the setup is so important, and you know, pictures on pictures of this is what the setup should look like. And some ambassadors are just like naturally, their table is beautiful, and they bring a plant from home and have it on the table, and they thought to bring a garbage can to have next to the table, and and they just, you know, have it down. It's like, you know, just some people are just like that. Like, you know, their their room is always perfect, and and others will send a picture of their table, they're like, How does it look? And I'm like, oh my gosh, like not great. Let's, you know, reorganize. So in um, you know, whenever they start, and and I've kind of learned some tricks along the way when it comes to, you know, there's like some some stands on Amazon that putting the product on just automatically makes the table look better. You know, the tablecloth, having branding on the tablecloth is is great. And, you know, sometimes if I see pictures, uh I'm like, hey, go go get it ironed, you know, we'll we'll cover it. Um, you know, because that stuff is just important, you know, getting people to the table. So that's something that is is is you never know what you're gonna get. Um, but you know, we always always need a picture, especially if someone's starting, you know, that that day or that week. I'm like, when you get to the source, send me a picture of the setup, let's make sure it's okay before beginning. And then when it comes to reporting, obviously extremely important. Um, you know, whether we're doing it in-house or or an agency. And so I use I've used a software called Pinata my whole for years now, and um use it in-house, use it as an agency. Brand investors have to check in to the location so I can see they're checked in, I can see when they check out, it tracks their location, and then you get to tailor the report. So, you know, you get samples distributed, you get shelf photos, you get all of that feedback, of course. I love when I see like a paragraph of feedback, I'm like, amazing.

Speaker 1: 15:51
Totally.

Speaker: 15:51
And yeah, you know, I give, you know, ambassadors, I always say, you know, within two to three days have it done because you're you're gonna forget. But a lot of them take notes and stuff.

Speaker 1: 16:01
From a a metrics reporting ROI standpoint, m what metrics matter most during a demo?

Speaker: 16:11
Yeah, I'd say, you know, I always track um samples distributed and sales. And then in terms of kind of longer term, you know, if a rep in the feedback says, hey, you know, we sold out, the store ordered up, like confirmation store reordered, or, you know, every now and then you get, you know, hey, told the store that I'm gonna come back and and we got an end cap. And so I think I think the one of the long-term benefits for sure is that once you are in these stores um, you know, a a handful of times, they're gonna start ordering for you. And that to me is a is a huge long-term benefit. They know you're coming back. And most ambassadors are like, hey, I'm gonna come back, you know, this day, this next week, make sure you have this. And they order it because they know that they're gonna sell it.

Speaker 1: 16:54
Any examples of a brand that you've worked with where you saw the payoff over time? The metrics don't necessarily indicate that day of demo haven't had a huge impact from like units sold or samples given out or something, but you start to see it over time. It just kind of adds, yeah.

Speaker: 17:09
Yeah, it's something that you see over time, and it's it comes from again being in the stores pretty frequently. It's hard to do like a one-off. I mean, a one-off you'll most of the time see a bump, but then it's gonna go back down. And so it takes about a year, so like two years to really at the two-year point, a lot of times the ambassadors are like, all these shoppers know me, you know, and it's and it's great. And, you know, that way, you know, as you're innovating and launching new stuff, they they know that they they know you, they like it, they're like, Oh, okay, you know, I'm gonna uh what do you have today? I'm gonna grab it. But yeah, we definitely saw, you know, with with Whole Foods specifically, like the the stores that we were at, you know, pretty long term, those were some of our top stores, even when we pulled back because you're you're forming those relationships with the shoppers, and so you know, over time it clicks and and it's an inventory thing too. You know, stores will give you that extra facing because they're ordering up.

Speaker 1: 18:09
Yep, totally. What makes a great demo rep brand ambassador?

Speaker: 18:15
Someone who cares, and there are so many people who do, and there's there's some people who don't, but that's probably my favorite part of working in the field marketing demo world. There are so many people, you know, ambassadors who care so much and go the extra mile, and they're like, oh my gosh, I found, you know, something expired or or the store hasn't ordered up, I'm going back tomorrow. And, you know, they they want to succeed just as badly as you do. That is it's like the best feeling because it, you know, it it's similar to being on a team where you're like, we're all in this together. That's what makes a great ambassador. You know, you could always fix the table, you could always fix uh, you know, the little things, but you know, that enthusiasm obviously shows when they're selling the product, they feel they feel like they're you know a part of it and they are. So yeah, just I think I would say number one is enthusiasm. And that's you know, I've worked with so many people over the years where I'm like so shocked that, you know, how driven they are to sell and how, you know, we've had ambassadors being like, oh my gosh, like, you know, this store manager hasn't ordered up, you know, I'm I've called him every day this week. I'm like, you know, and you know, they're not they're not getting paid to do that, but they just care.

Speaker 1: 19:31
Yeah. Are there are there ways you can motivate andor the way you incentivize brand ambassadors to actually actually true truly care about the brand? Or is it just kind of in a either they just come in really caring a lot or they don't?

Speaker: 19:47
I think, you know, some do. Some who who have a background with other brands, they are, you know, they they like being in this world and um, you know, they're excited about a new product. So it's kind of it just like snaps initially. Others, you know, what what I've always done building like in-house field teams is have you know a group chat with everyone. And it's it's so fun, like hearing, you know, having people send updates and um you know what's working, what's not, and hey, I tried this today, it worked, or I'm trying a new store today. And so that I think I think it's really just making people feel, you know, a part of something and and they are, you know, they're they're boots on the ground for you. And so I think, you know, telling them, hey, you know, I have some reps on like, hey, your stores are the number one, you know, in in this state, you know, like, and they're like, oh my gosh, sorry, like I had no idea. So I think, and that goes for any job and any industry. Like, you know, if if you have people working for you, I think telling them, you know, this is why we're doing this, and and here's the impact you're having, it creates motivation.

Speaker 1: 20:52
Totally. What's the best place or strategy to to find the best brand ambassadors? And we're just where to find, yeah, where to find them.

Speaker: 21:03
Yeah. So initially, we when we were building a team, we had um a field marketing manager like years ago. He brought in a few people who he had worked with. And from there, it was kind of this like network that blew up. It's it's very much a network, and a lot of people I've hired over the years are recommendations. You know, sometimes I'm working with one, you know, woman in Miami and she's like, Oh, I met this great rep yesterday at Fresh Market doing a demo next to me. I got her information, like it seriously works like that. And so I always love hiring from recommendations. That's how I try to do, you know, like 75% of my hiring. And then other than that, uh, Facebook groups.

Speaker 1: 21:42
That's you know yeah, there's one for they're like brand ambassador demo Facebook groups, or are you ones you kind of go in Facebook groups that are other groups that you feel like those type of people would be good brand ambassadors?

Speaker: 21:55
There's there's just groups for you know, different cities, different states, and depending if If I'm like, oh, you know, I need someone in this market, I'll join those and and post, and then you get people reaching out. And yeah, that's that's how it goes. That's how I've always done. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 22:10
Yeah. Let's consider a brand. They're early, but they're starting to hit the snowball is starting to roll fast and faster down the hill. Maybe it's just been, you know, the say it's like three co-founders that started the brand, it's just basically been them and doing the demos and maybe tagging in their trends or you know, why it's or something here and there. Budgets are getting bigger, but you know, still somewhat limited. Why does it make sense to hire an agency like Lyftoff? Or I don't know, when and why does it make sense to build out an internal demo team?

Speaker: 22:45
Yeah, I think an agency is early on, you kind of just, you know, if it is, you know, a founder just the co-founders or you know two to three to four employees, that's the way to go. Like I said earlier, it's hard hard to find really good agencies, but you know, that's kind of the way to step into it. And especially if you know a brand has been doing demos themselves, which I always think you know is a great thing because they're on the ground and hearing what customers are saying, then they can really train and and manage the agency closely and they know what's worked for them and they can really direct them. So, you know, it takes a lot off when an agency is handling, you know, the scheduling, the the payments, the staffing, all of that.

Speaker 1: 23:29
Yeah.

Speaker: 23:30
But you know, always make sure that you're you're getting on a training call, you're monitoring, that they know that you're, you know, you're you're watching sales. And so I think, you know, for the first few months to a year, if if you have really limited resources, it's the way to go. And it's just about management and you kind of find the people within the agencies that are that are doing a really good job for you and ask them to do more demos. Um, and then yeah, I think you know, it's it's it's kind of a natural thing. If if it's something that's working for you, then that's when you you take it internally because there's been proof of concept. Some brands, you know, it just might not work. And so it's you know good to have that test before you are are hiring people.

Speaker 1: 24:11
Totally. Yeah, it makes sense. For um the brand, the brands that do hire an agency, what's the most effective way to to diligence these types of demo agencies in terms of quality of reps, reporting, channel capabilities, that kind of stuff?

Speaker: 24:25
Yeah, I think understanding kind of up front what their reporting looks like. I think asking the agency, what are your strongest regions, where are your strongest people? You know, they'll they'll tell you. And um I I that's the way that I've always done it. Kind of said, you know, you tell me where where are your best people, let's start there, and then kind of go from there, or just say, hey, where did you start? Like what were your first few regions? Those typically are some of their strongest.

Speaker 1: 24:54
On the agency side, how many brands is too many for one brand ambassador to be, you know, repping before they can't really care about any of them because they're just too many?

Speaker: 25:07
Hmm. I know, you know, I know that a lot of ambassadors enjoy working with different brands because they like switching it up and um, you know, um, I don't know, maybe like like 10 to 12. Okay. Um, I don't know. I and I I would say just because it it might lead to like burnout, you know.

Speaker 1: 25:30
What's the most common way is that demos can can go wrong and and how do you plan ahead?

Speaker: 25:36
I think the biggest thing is inventory, especially when you're starting off. And you know, it's a pain to do, but you have to call the stores, you have to, you know, three days before, two days before, you know, three days before call them, hey, order up, two days before call them, hey, remember me? Like we're coming in. Yeah. And then eventually that that is not an issue because you know, you're there and and they know you, and okay, we're gonna, you know, you see them face to face, hey, you know, order up, I'm I'm coming. So I'd say that's the biggest thing. It's you know, and and and it sometimes a store is like, hey, I'm yeah, sure, I'm gonna order up, and then you show up and there's only you know three or four units on the shelf, and right, you know, the brand ambassador has has gone there and started to set up, and so that's uh always a bummer.

Speaker 1: 26:24
Yeah. What does your playbook look like, or how you recommend to brand ambassadors how to kind of deal with situations where they get, you know, when they just get to a store and whatever reason they're just super disengaged, not really helpful, and or maybe even hopefully doesn't happen too too frequently, but ones that are actually somewhat openly hostile to the brand ambassadors in terms of not being supportive and in terms of them doing demos.

Speaker: 26:49
Yeah, I don't think I've really had that experience. I think, yeah, most store managers shout out to store managers. I feel like most of them are always like excited uh to you know to have someone there. You know, if anything, maybe they're annoyed at how much we call ahead sometimes to make sure they have product. But no, I don't I I think like pretty lucky that we haven't really had that happen. That's great. With more natural channel chains or or retailers, you kind of know that a certain percent of stores are gonna do a bulkier business. It's kind of easier to pick those stores out and focus on those. Whereas, you know, bigger, it's so hard to know. You know, it's like, you know, Texas has as many Walmarts as, you know, like there are like Whole Foods almost, like it's crazy. And so I think it's just harder to figure out kind of where to go and and how to how to target stores.

Speaker 1: 27:46
That makes sense. That makes a lot of sense. What's the most common objections that like brand ambassadors get from consumers and how do you train them to rebut them or answer them or deal with those objections?

Speaker: 27:58
Yeah, it totally varies by product and it's so interesting. And you know, it's like there's always one ingredient that all of a sudden, you know, it's like it's like I feel like I I get exposure to the trends before I see them sometimes, like in the headlines and stuff, because people are like, oh, all of a sudden people are avoiding this or they heard about this. And so it totally varies by product. And a lot of times, you know, I'll ask brands like, do you have a one or two pager on on why and how we can explain? Um, and then you know, price is always is is something, you know, more so at you know, some of the natural channel stores, it it can be a barrier, but I'd say, you know, there's ingredients and now, you know, with there are so many apps that people are like, hey, it's it's scanning on this app and I don't know why it's showing as a bad score. And I had five people use this app today. And so I'd say, you know, making sure you you kind of know where your products stand on those apps is important.

Speaker 1: 28:54
How can a brand most effectively scale national demo strategy?

Speaker: 28:58
Yeah, it gets it gets harder the bigger you scale for sure. But um, you know, I I think it's what you said, kind of a mix of agencies, and I do think a lot of agencies are regional, and so it's kind of finding those and working with those. So sometimes your in-house team covers an X amount, and and we don't have anyone in in these new newer regions that we're in, and so definitely a mix of more of the regional agencies.

Speaker 1: 29:23
Where do demo programs most commonly break as as they scale?

Speaker: 29:28
I think um, you know, I think after that like two-year mark, you kind of know, you know, where you stand as a brand. A lot of you know, your your reps have established probably really strong uh, you know, base level store sales. You know, most brands at that point have expanded nationally um or are entering more conventional, and and it's I think the spend is just too hard to keep up with. It's just the reality.

Speaker 1: 29:58
Yeah.

Speaker: 29:58
And so, you know, that's when you switch more into some of the online stuff and or more of the mass media stuff. Yeah, I think that's when it kind of has to end.

Speaker 1: 30:09
You mentioned pinata. Other than that one, any other kind of core tools that you found are super useful in terms of scaling up a demo agency or program to a pretty large scale?

Speaker: 30:18
Yeah, so I use uh pinata for all reporting. And then when I had an agency, I used Gusto for payroll. Really, really easy. I think those are the only two really like softwares that I use. And then, you know, I again I'm lucky I've had so many great ambassadors who have, you know, stepped up and helped me, you know, like Florida specifically have some great, you know, team members down there. And I'm and nice. I'm like, hey, you know, I'm I'm onboarding this new person. Can you just help them out? Or, you know, so I think, you know, kind of raising up some of your top people, or you kind of know the people who you can kind of be like, hey, you know, do you mind? Can I give you a few more hours? Will you help me out with this or will you help this person out? And so, you know, it's really hard, obviously, when it's your team or or your company, but I've definitely learned like leaning on you know people who are who are doing the work and and are willing to do more is is really beneficial.

Speaker 1: 31:15
Looking into the future a bit, you've been in this demo world for you know quite a while now, you know pretty well. Um based on what you've seen. I'm not sure if things have changed, you know, dramatically over the past few years, but any just based on what you know, any notable changes you think we might see in in the general kind of demo landscape over the next, I don't know, five, seven years or so, or do you think things are gonna pretty much kind of remain remain the same?

Speaker: 31:43
You know, that's a good question. I feel like we're gonna see more demos. I feel like I'm seeing more and more brands investing in it. I know like Fishwife always talks about, you know, how it's been such a big part of their marketing strategy. And I think also a lot of like co-demos, I think cutting costs, you know, that's what we did at Dax Mighty, kind of you know, splitting the table and collaborating. I think it's you know, you still get you still get sales and and you're able to kind of pull back on costs a little bit. But yeah, yeah, I've I think a lot of brands are using it and and seeing the benefits of it. So maybe more demos.

Speaker 1: 32:21
What's the if people are curious about learning more about demos, I'm not sure if you want to get bugged, but what's the best place for people to to uh to follow along with you and everything you're working on? It's Match Kitchen and everything else.

Speaker: 32:31
Yeah, connect with me on LinkedIn, Kira Kiho, and I'll always answer my DMs.

Speaker 1: 32:37
Awesome. Thanks, Kira. This isn't great. Appreciate the time. That's the point.

Speaker: 32:40
Thanks so much, Adam.

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