The 7,000 Decisions Investors Never See | Abby Haines, Porta

Speaker 1: 00:00
Welcome to Shelf Help. Today we're speaking with Abby Haynes, president of Porta, the frozen Roman-style Italian pizza brand that came out of the Taroni restaurant group in the Toronto area in partnership with Brand Project Early Stage Fund, which is where Abby spent a lot of years on the investor side, wrote the first check into Porta, I believe, at the pre-seed stage, watched it from the investor seat through a few years, some of the challenges and pivots along the way. Aventu decided to jump on board, I think about two years ago. Abby's also a CFA, competed at the national level in both snowboarding and sprint canoeing. Abby, just maybe just first off, for maybe the listeners that maybe aren't as familiar with Porto, love to just start because getting a quick lay of the land just in terms of the origin story and the why behind the brand and what the core kind of product lineup looks like, and then uh we'll take it from there.

Speaker 2: 00:49
Yeah, love it. Hey Adam, and really excited to be here. Uh I have spent the last two years on a very long drive to the manufacturing facility every morning, and I've listened to your podcast through a lot of that. So I'm happy to be here. Uh yeah, Porta is it started really 35 years ago, well before Porta actually existed. So our founder, Cosmo Mamaliti, opened his first restaurant over 30 years ago in the Toronto area called Taroni. And he's now built a very successful restaurant business off of the back of that on sort of this unwavering philosophy of that starts with quality ingredients and also bringing the traditional techniques and the craft of Italian cooking to the North American market. So we kind of went out to tackle that same question. How do we bring the quality and the care of Italian cooking into the homes of consumers across North America? Porta, the name, actually means to bring or to carry in Italian, and it also means door. And that's exactly what we're doing: bringing our delicious Italian cooking to the North American consumers on the same pillars that Cosimo has built his restaurants on. So we are absolutely ingredient obsessed. We actually import many of our ingredients from Italy where it makes sense. And then we really lean into the culinary and chef-driven side of the creation of our products to be kind of launch something that is delicious first and then hits other consumer needs second. We have two styles of frozen pizza that we started with. The first is what you mentioned, the Roman-style pizza. That's what we're well known for. It is inspired by the slice culture of Rome, and it features this really delicious frozen dough that is airy and crispy and really doesn't taste like a frozen pizza. And then we've just launched Classica, which is our new style of pizza. It's our take on a thin crust inspired by the southern Italy culture. And this is a softer, chewier crust. Across those two lines, we've got multiple different flavors. We have your familiar flavors like pepperoni and four cheese and margarita. And then we have flavors that are chef driven, our sausage and caramelized onion with a delicious smoked cheese. And then my personal favorite, which is mushroom and fontina with a creamy truffle bechamel white sauce. It is that is by far the best frozen pizza I've ever had. Uh, I might be a bit biased. And ultimately, we just want to bring products that come from the freezer but taste like you are eating something from a restaurant.

Speaker 1: 03:12
Love it. Well, it definitely seemed like it's been resonating with the consumers thus far. Me connected, I think a few weeks ago, we talked a bit about that transition from the investor side, which you would spend a majority of your kind of early part of their career on to the operator side. And I think one thing you told me there are just certain things that you just really don't appreciate as an investor when you come and operate full-time. What did you generally not appreciate?

Speaker 2: 03:33
Yeah, I think investing gave me a really good sense of how to build enterprise value and what the destination should be. And what I was alluding to in that conversation was not understanding the interconnection of 7,000 different decisions you have to make from getting from point A to B. As an investor, I'd sit on one side of the table saying to a brand, you need to improve your margins by 15 points, you need to cut burn by 200k a month, and you need to grow top-line while you're doing all of that. So I think we became very good at identifying those issues and even maybe suggesting some high-level strategies to get there. But what I've discovered is really like nothing is black and white. And making those decisions is also it weighs on you, even the smallest decisions, because you're often reacting with imperfect information and that the decision you're going to make will not only affect the company, but the people, the investors, and they they often have real consequences. So those decisions end up weighing on you. And I have to say, I've been using this analogy with friends and family lately, uh, and I'm a big NFL fan, but I am now feel like I'm the Josh Allen versus the Terry Pagula owner of the bills. And that's really kind of how I sum up the difference of being an investor versus an operator.

Speaker 1: 04:45
I love that. I love that. What has has proven to be pretty valuable coming from the investor side that maybe an operator without that experience wouldn't have.

Speaker 2: 04:54
Yeah, I think seeing hundreds and hundreds of consumer businesses and studying them over the last decade, it gives me really good pattern recognition and understanding what great looks like. And so, not even like a great outcome, but what great founders do and how they build their teams, what great teams look and what look like and what great functions look like. So I have developed a really clear picture of what Porta needs to evolve into to be great. And then the second piece I think is just around capital allocation and that sort of decision making, being very uh maniacal about where we put our capital and how we build that value for the next stage of growth.

Speaker 1: 05:32
How did the conversation start that eventually had the ledge you to pivot to the other side?

Speaker 2: 05:36
This is a fun one. Yeah. So it was at Brand Project for eight years. I absolutely loved it. I couldn't see myself doing anything else uh until I sort of got thrown into this situation. So Porta was going through a temporary transition uh and a bit of a challenging period. And so uh I put my hand up to come help the team navigate that for you know what should have been three to six months. And I wasn't the obvious candidate to do that. I do have a depth of knowledge in consumer and finance and strategy, but literally no experience in how to manufacture food, what a frozen supply chain looks like, how to build a CPG sales organization. I had never managed a team. So all of this was brand new to me. And I think every single morning I woke up thinking, how am I possibly supposed to make and sell millions of frozen pizzas over the next period of time? Um, but then I fell in love with it and I fell in love with Porta specifically and what the brand ultimately could become. And I started to realize like, we're actually kind of good at it, the team that we had there in place. And uh it was then about proving that we were good at it to the rest of the stakeholders. So there's a board, there's Cosmo, the founder, all the other investors and our team. And ultimately just earning that confidence was the second phase of getting here. And once those two pieces were in place, it really felt like the obvious next step for my career.

Speaker 1: 06:56
Makes sense. Makes total sense. Well, you touched on a little bit because you kind of walked into some some level of challenges. You can dive into how much level detail you want to, but I guess I'm more kind of curious what the first 90 days, maybe up to like six months, look like once once you came on board.

Speaker 3: 07:10
Yeah. The so the first the first 90 days were really kind of a pivotal moment for the brand.

Speaker 2: 07:19
So I I allude some of this is attributed to the timing of when I joined. We had just spent the last 18 months building out a manufacturing facility. Uh, so that had just opened when I joined. And in two months' time, we were launching Whole Foods and Sprouts nationally, which is a huge feat for a tiny little brand at the time. Um, baby basically going from zero to a hundred overnight. And the product was selling really well, and uh, retailers wanted it and consumers wanted it, but there was literally no infrastructure to get the product from point A to point B. And in those first 90 days, literally everything that could break broke. We had capacity issues, margin issues, every piece of equipment seemed to break. Uh, there was no supply chain to get the product from point A to B, like I said. We had cash flow issues, we had people issues. And so it felt like 90 days of complete firefighting, which I do think has made the brand better in the long term because we've become very resourceful. The team is also known to plan for optionality and and figure out different routes to get to the same place. Uh, and it's created a lot of resilience for the team. So that was sort of the first 90 days.

Speaker 1: 08:27
One of the big focuses was on margin. What had the the big impact of whether it's renegotiating green contracts, labor, freight, cold chains?

Speaker 2: 08:35
Yeah, this goes back to the 7,000 decisions because really it wasn't one silver bullet that helped fix it. And and you can even see it in our margin evolution month over month. The one big thing that we did do, which was sort of a big risk for an early stage brand like ours, is we took a 20% price increase to all of our retailers we had literally just launched in. And that was to obviously improve the margin, but also make sure we were cementing ourselves as premium and kind of owning that positioning. And then from there, we took a look at everything else. So, like you said, raw materials, uh, you know, what where do we, where can we negotiate? Where do we have to find new suppliers, our labor models and our efficiency at the plant, our network of freight and supply chain and trade spend, like everything, there was nothing sacred except for the product. The goal was to keep the product identical and that no one should notice a change all the way up to Cosmo. He couldn't notice, but we had to change and tweak everything that came in the box.

Speaker 1: 09:31
Porta was born out of this restaurant group. I think the website still says today they're hand tossed, bake in a brick oven. You just mentioned this facility you guys just built out. And I think another thing you had mentioned when we chatted a few weeks back was product market fit had never really been an issue, it was more about actually servicing that demand. So, in relation to that, I'm kind of curious, what's what was the thought process of going vertical, building out a 40,000 square foot facility versus finding the right co-man? What was the decision process around that?

Speaker 2: 09:57
Yeah, and I will tell you, the product is still every piece of pizza and every dough is still hand-stretched. It is built baked in a stone oven. And so we've had a great challenge. It's how do you take that craft that Cosmos built at the restaurants and you know, create it for scale? So that was the ultimate decision to build the own our own facility was we had canvassed what exists in the market in North America and no one was delivering the quality of crust that we wanted to deliver, which ultimately needs that hand stretching. It's a high hydration dough, meaning more water and olive oil, harder to manage in a bakery setting. So what we built out allowed us to kind of learn the process and also control the process. But what we did is we built out basically a recreation of the restaurant kitchen. And we had people chopping basil and cooking sausage and red wine, literally doing everything like the restaurant would, but which then sort of forced the question like, how do we continue to scale this and keep what makes the product really special, but outsource the things that maybe consumers don't notice? And so that's where we've landed on this. There's a very fine line of keeping the craft of the dough and the ingredients. That's sort of our two pillars and outsourcing what we don't need to do in our own four walls.

Speaker 1: 11:09
We didn't go immediately to the CBD stuff. You had some level of meal delivery subscription by mid-2023. It was 30 or so items approaching a million deliveries or so. I guess a lot of that call eventually get made to then just focus on the frozen pizzas and retail from there. Any big learning lessons that came out of that uh in between stays?

Speaker 2: 11:26
Yeah. So we were born out of these restaurants and we had commissary kitchens where a lot of the product for the restaurants was being made, and that's where we were originally born. And the quickest route to market to sort of get consumer feedback was going direct to consumer in our local market. Uh, the intention was never for that to be the what the brand ultimately was, you know, five, 10 years from now. It was the way to launch, and it became basically our consumer RD lab. It was also the pandemic, so people were at home. And so the del the method of delivery was actually how we got a lot of consumers in the early days. And you're right, we had 30 plus, I think actually we had up to 50 SKUs at some point across pizza, pasta, sauces, desserts, really offering all of the options that you could get at the Taroni restaurants in this frozen meal kit. And it allowed us to see what were people reordering, what did people love, uh, but also it is a very cost, uh costly method to the consumer. So we then kind of took a step back and said, we need to meet people where they're currently shopping and what product will we start with. And that's where pizza kept winning. It's not only the product that most of North America is most familiar with uh in the frozen segment, but also where we were getting a lot of uptake in the D2C days. Whole Foods and Sprouts then launched, and pretty quickly we realized there's no way this small lean team can focus on both channels. And that was sort of 2.0 of Porta is focus is going to become our strategy. And even though we're cutting, you know, low single digits of millions of dollars though, of revenue, it is the right thing ultimately for the longer-term success of the business. So yeah, it was kind of like cut complexity to drive the future value of Porta.

Speaker 1: 13:09
I know you weren't part of the internal team from the beginning, but knowing that your fund got involved pre-seat, I imagine you're there really early on. Curious, uh, like the early days, the first iteration of kind of building out the brand identity, visual identity packaging design. What were, do you remember some of the key variables, things that were top of mind for the team as they're as they're building out in terms of how they wanted this brand to be positioned in the market?

Speaker 2: 13:31
Yeah. So have been a part of these discussions since the very beginning, which it's it's nice now sitting in the seat now, knowing where we came from. Uh, but it's always been a brand that's rooted in the same philosophy philosophy of how Cosmo has built his restaurants. So being the obsessive focus on ingredients and highlighting Italian food culture and culinary expertise without being like kind of a cheesy Italian brand, if that makes sense. And there's been a bunch of iterations of that from the direct to consumer days and how we told consumers about the brand and how we, you know, got them to ultimately purchase and then moving into retail. On, you know, starting with independence in the local market where people already knew who we were, going to national launches at Whole Foods and Sprouts and now beyond. We had to continue continuously like adjust our marketing and our messaging. Because now ultimately, the most likely scenario is no one, the person entering that frozen aisle hasn't heard of Porta. So, how do we tell that story in literally seconds? Uh, it also happens to be an aisle that people don't love to spend a ton of time in because it's cold. Um, so really the the challenge is all on how we get that message across very quickly.

Speaker 1: 14:40
There was a rebrand in the more more recent future, what led the decision to say, yeah, it's time for us to go through a bit of a rebrand.

Speaker 2: 14:46
Yeah, it was right after we had launched and we were considering that price increase. And as we were doing so, uh, we had to consider what is in the box we know is very premium and people love it, but how do we reflect that level of premium on the packaging and throughout the rest of our brand? And we kind of call it reinvention, not really a rebrand, because we kept a lot of the core equities of Porta. We kept our logo, we kept the ingredient callouts on the packaging and the DNA that's gone through all the different iterations we've had since the very beginning, but then decided uh that we needed to elevate the brand on the front of pack and the side. And we worked with a great agency, their name is FreshMade. I had a pleasure working with them, and they basically agreed with us. Our brand equities were amazing, but we just had to elevate what was there. And so the first thing started with food photography. Your product, especially something that people are going to cook at home, has to look absolutely delicious on the front of pack. So that was the first thing. It's food photography. We upgraded some of the color systems and some of how things are laid out in the box just to improve readability. But ultimately the end goal was to ensure that I people were understanding that we are a premium brand and that's why we are priced the way we are.

Speaker 1: 15:59
Well, knowing that this was your first journey as an operator, let's just say I was another CBG founder operator, fears behind where you guys are at. I've told you I'm considering a rebrand, a refresh. Um, what kind of questions about you asking it? Even helped me understand, is this the right strategy in the first place? Is it worth it to go down this, spend all the money, time, resources, et cetera?

Speaker 2: 16:20
Yeah. I think first getting very clear on what exactly you're trying to solve. Uh, you know, we we spent, we knew we had to do it, but we didn't know the the how exactly. And so we spent a lot of time uh doing consumer research and speaking to our customers just through our socials and whatnot, understanding what they love about Porta, why they pick us up, and what when they try us, ultimately what keeps them coming back for more. So understanding that is very important and what exactly you're trying to change. And then the second thing is knowing what consumer, what is going to engage consumers and what they recognize and what you don't have to be precious about. So it's easy, especially as a founder, to feel like you know, your first iteration of packaging is sort of your baby. It's, you know, you spent all this time thinking and money probably thinking about how to lay out the packaging and or brand or whatever it is. And ultimately, you can't be precious about some things. And when fresh eyes come and look at it and give you some feedback, I think it's important to hold what you need to, the through line of the brand true to to to the brand and and advocate for that, but let other people tell you what you know would kind of elevate for the next phase. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 17:34
From the retail side of things, typical common processes start on the natural channel of the Whole Foods and the Sprouts. I think in August of this year, just recently, you went nationwide and target, which is huge. In terms of what what the strategy process looked like for nailing down the go-to-market price, I'm curious what that looks like and has it evolved over time as you expanded into conventional. Did you have to adjust your price, or did you guys kind of plan ahead? First price you had in the market, you're just getting ready for okay, we need to have a price that's gonna work when we eventually get to the targets and Walmarts of the world.

Speaker 2: 18:05
Yeah, it's a good question because our thinking has shifted about this probably four times back and forth. Uh, but we launched the brand. Initially, it was to line price at the top of the market. So who was the most expensive brand? And we will price the same as them, which I actually think, in hindsight, it was probably a good way to launch. It got us a lot of trial and it had people experiencing Porta who may not have uh wanted to pay $1, $2 premium in the space. But as I alluded to earlier, that caused some margin issues and there's you know a lot of downstream effects to that. And so we kind of reframed and said, our product, it requires us to be premium because we are offering something that no one else is offering in this space. And so, how do we price to reflect that while also make sure we still encourage trade-up and we bring new consumers into the category? So it is a bit of like an art, and it isn't one, every retailer doesn't get the same price. It depends on who shops there, um, kind of the the architecture of the rest of the set and who we're competing against in that segment. Uh, and so we're, I think, very thoughtful now about where we go in at. And then the second piece of pricing is obviously the promo strategy. And and again, it's tailored really specifically to each individual retailer and and to achieve what we need to achieve is different in every every segment.

Speaker 1: 19:28
I'm curious about that expansion from natural into conventional. What has changed in the business that supports that different level of scale?

Speaker 2: 19:35
We launched and we didn't have the infrastructure built to supply the first two customers and and all of the doors that we launched with. And so uh I think we've we've now built for the next phase or four phases in front, which is great. But the conventional channel it it requires more manufacturing capacity, a better supply chain, much better forecasting tools, which we're discovering, and working capital to support that business. So that's the one piece. So sort of infrastructure. And then I said the second thing that we were just discussing is the sales and marketing playbook evolves as you get into new channels. And we have to learn from the consumers who are there. And you know, we're we're paying a lot of attention to the data that's happening at Target and that's happening at Whole Foods and that's happening at Sparts because it is different in every channel. So I think natural sort of provided proof of the proposition that we were offering, and now conventional is really offering the scale uh to continue growing this brand.

Speaker 1: 20:30
Have you found that the tactics are somewhat different in terms of what has the biggest impact, or is it pretty consistent across the board thus far?

Speaker 2: 20:39
Yeah, it's been it's been different. I think we take a different approach to each retailer. Ultimately, driving trial comes down to, you know, getting people into the aisle, trading up or trading over from other brands, and that sort of gets your first purchase. And then the product is what needs to continue driving velocity and the repeat purchases for the those consumers. I think that one we've nailed, although we are always evolving. We're taking consumer feedback as we get it on different products and and and how to improve the products that we have. Uh, but really we kind of split it into the two pieces. It's it's the trial first, velocity, sorry, trial first, repeat second, and we focus on the two of them. And it is different by retailer by retailer. How we how we get that trial, um, you know, we've we participate in the programs or we market the way in which makes sense for each retailer. So at Whole Foods, like they are fantastic at demos, and that's the way that we get people to try us. And we call it Pizza DeMouse. That's gonna be the best way to sell our product. And then um, Whole Foods, they have great promo programs. So we've leaned into a lot of those. And then at Target, more recently, they have great online media and ways to leverage that to drive your brand. So really it it's a different playbook for every retailer.

Speaker 1: 21:54
The last few years were more operations, finance gotten to the point now where the focus is more rapid expansion, trip. Distribution year over year. What does this big shift actually look like internally? Reset the team, different people, different budgets, different metrics on the wall.

Speaker 2: 22:09
Yeah, we spent two years building the machine, and now we're like, okay, we get to feed it. This is great. It's an exciting change for us.

Speaker 3: 22:15
Yeah.

Speaker 2: 22:15
Um, and it's really just encouraging us to be more commercially oriented. So driving more of our budget towards things like sales and marketing and brand and driving the velocities. Our team hasn't really changed. We have a very strong and lean team today, but as we look to continue expanding the team, we want to bring in people who have done this before. They've scaled other brands, but they can remain extremely scrappy. Uh, and we want to avoid overbuilding the team, but to really have those people who know exactly how to get from this point that we're at to the next phase of growth.

Speaker: 22:48
How much do you think your current processes are going to work until any break again?

Speaker 3: 22:53
Yeah. Every month. Yeah, we it it does, but we're evolving.

Speaker 2: 23:02
I think from a people standpoint, there are some key hires that we're looking to add now because we've we've launched Target and we're looking towards um, you know, driving target success as well as our existing consumers or sorry, existing retailers, and then and then getting to that next phase. So that will take, I think, a little bit of a not a different team, but additions to that. And then the other piece about the breakage, we always come back to this. We need to never forget where we were two years ago and what we've been through. We learned a lot of lessons through that period. And so we encourage the team to continue thinking back to that period and let's build before we break again. And so I think what that means is like making those hard decisions, you know, increased distribution for a small brand like us is very exciting, but it doesn't always mean that that's the best next step.

Speaker: 23:51
Sure.

Speaker 2: 23:52
So it's, you know, making sure that every new opportunity is profitable, we can service it, and it's going to be sustainable for the long time, the long run of Porta. That's really our kind of evaluation metrics.

Speaker 1: 24:04
The frozen category is all the rage right now. What's unique about this category? What do what do you think is kind of driving this renewed focus?

Speaker 2: 24:11
Yeah. I think even just as a consumer, frozen fits how people are living these days. And that's why people are coming back to the segment. We're looking for products and and meals that are convenient. Um we're all busy and they're delicious because we don't want to compromise on taste. And that the most recent thing is that every ingredient in that product is uh something that we feel good about feeding ourselves. And that's, I think, what's causing this frozen renaissance, uh, which is amazing. It's the last three years, the the brands that have been popping up in a traditionally very taboo space, at least from the investors' lens, is pretty exciting. And you're seeing innovation not just in frozen meals but or frozen pizza, but breakfasts and french fries. And I'm I'm a huge fan of Jesse and Ben's and Evergreen. And I aspire to follow in those footsteps. They are wonderful brands that are hitting that trifecta of what consumers love. And so what we're doing and what many brands in Frozen are doing are taking these familiar occasions, but delivering something that the consumers want in this kind of modern way of eating and shopping. The other thing I specifically like about the frozen pizza segment is from the outside at the 300,000 foot view, it looks stagnant. It looks like a category that's not growing. Investors could say, uh, you know, I don't, you know, I won't invest in a category that's existed for, you know, hundreds and hundreds of years. We but I think what's really happening is something we've seen in other categories, and it's like a changing of guard. And we saw it in yogurt 20 years ago. We've seen it in mac and cheese more recently, and that's exactly what's happening across a lot of frozen categories. Better products, ingredients, and a better brand is driving a premiumization in that category. And that's really the wave that I think pizza is going through right now, specifically in a lot of other categories in Frozen. So it's an ex it's an exciting place to be in. Um, it's also, I would say, a more complicated space within the CPG aisles that you could play in. Frozen is complicated and it's expensive, which has a bit of a barrier. But once you crack that, I think it is um the place to be right now.

Speaker 1: 26:16
For say someone that's uh early stages of building a brand that's focused on the frozen category. What's one or two things you tell them to keep top of mind or things that you could give them a heads up on that might trip them up along the way?

Speaker 2: 26:30
Yeah. There's two. I I mentioned that the economics and the infrastructure to build in frozen is expensive. So I think your route to market should have checkpoints where you validate the success. So, you know, is the product delicious? I think one thing that's very difficult is a product can be a frozen product needs to be cooked at a consumer's home. So it can be delicious in a test RD kitchen, but is it also delicious when you leave it to every individual's oven and their cook times and people get distracted? And there's there's lots of things that can play into how that final product ends up. And so you need to have a delicious product that anyone can cook uh at home. And then the second checkpoint is early signs of velocity. So when you do offer that product, even in a small sample size, can you validate that consumers are picking it up and repeating? And that I think is another check before you go into distributing the product everywhere. And then the last piece is once you sort of have those three pieces in line, it's your path to market. Go into retailers that are supporting you on the you know cost side, um, maybe waiving listing fees, maybe potentially helping promote or build your brand alongside you. Because, like I said, this is a very expensive route to market. And one mistake about like blowing your product all over, you know, 10,000 doors all at once, that could be the thing that crushes an early stage brand.

Speaker 1: 28:00
Those are all very helpful. Last question for you, Abby, do you see a lot of brands, especially in your investor track side of things? Let's just say excluding frozen, any kind of particular brands that you've just been following lately or just overall trends in the space in general that you've been just kind of tracking closely just for fun, because they seem especially interesting these days.

Speaker 2: 28:19
Yeah, there's too many brands to mention. So um I thought I'd lean into the trends here, but it's the ingredient scrutiny and and how quickly consumers are changing their preferences. So whether that's high protein, fiber, seed oils, no preservatives, the processing of the product, it just seems like as a brand, you can hardly keep up with what that next thing is. And so that's something I'm thinking about even as we're building Porta, like we don't need to be reinventing our brand every 18 months. But how do we lean into whatever the consumer is talking about at that point in time? We started with an obsession over ingredients. So I do think that we actually, without saying it, we do meet a lot of what consumers are looking for as the trends change. And ultimately what we're just looking to build is delicious first. But what we need to tell the consumer is that that ingredient integrity will always exist with Porta. So really interested in this. And I think, you know, hoping that the next year for Porta, we can start to tell that story in a better way and just start engaging with our consumers about that trend.

Speaker 1: 29:25
Totally. Love it. Clearly, I have a lot of knowledge in the space. What's the best place for people to follow along with you? And then where's the best place you want people to be follow along with all things going on with Porta these days?

Speaker 2: 29:35
Yeah, so socials uh for Porta, everything is eat Porta. So definitely follow along there. And then for me specifically on LinkedIn, Abby Haynes. And I actually created a fun little Instagram account where you can see and follow the behind the scenes of an entrepreneur building a pizza brand. It's called Girls Eat Porta. So yeah, that content's posted by me. It's the stuff that our director of marketing won't let me post on the Porta account, but it's fun and hopefully it gives a little bit of an inside look into what uh being an entrepreneur looks like.

Speaker 1: 30:04
Cool, love it. We'll definitely post put both those in the show notes.

Speaker 2: 30:07
Great.

Speaker 1: 30:08
Well, yeah, Abby, this has been awesome. I appreciate the time. I think this has been super valuable. I think a lot of people are gonna get a lot of value out of this. So yeah, appreciate the time. Thank god.

Speaker 2: 30:16
I had a great time. Thank you so much, Adam.

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